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Ukraine - Superthread

The Bread Guy

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We'll see ...
... senior Biden administration officials are warning that the United States could throw its weight behind a Ukrainian insurgency should President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia invade Ukraine ... Administration officials interviewed this week said that plans to help Ukrainian insurgents could include providing training in nearby countries that are part of NATO’s eastern flank: Poland, Romania and Slovakia, which could enable insurgents to slip in and out of Ukraine. Beyond logistical support and weapons, the United States and NATO allies could also provide medical equipment, services and even sanctuary during Russian offensives. The United States would almost certainly supply weapons, the officials said ...
Archive link here if previous one doesn't work
 

Halifax Tar

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Biden needs to shutup. You can't win at poker or politics when you play with the cards face up. Every time he makes a threat he backs NATO further into a corner and limits their response.

Biden is playing go fish, but he thinks it's poker... and the world cringes
 

Humphrey Bogart

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Biden is playing go fish, but he thinks it's poker... and the world cringes
Crazy 8s 🤣

Not going to lie, I absolutely could not give a crap about the Ukraine, it's not worth one drop of Canadian blood.

I don't think the Western Europeans care either, otherwise they would ween themselves off the teat of Russian Oil & Gas.

I think everyone believes the Russians are bluffing, believes they are weak and wouldn't possibly do this.

"Their GDP is so low compared to us"
"We won't let them bank with us, that'll teach them!"
"We will sanction them"

The West sounds like a spoiled fat kid with its bluster 🤣

If only the availability of a Starbucks Latté was a factor that actually mattered in War.
 

Halifax Tar

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Crazy 8s 🤣

Not going to lie, I absolutely could not give a crap about the Ukraine, it's not worth one drop of Canadian blood.

I don't think the Western Europeans care either, otherwise they would ween themselves off the teat of Russian Oil & Gas.

I think everyone believes the Russians are bluffing, believes they are weak and wouldn't possibly do this.

"Their GDP is so low compared to us"
"We won't let them bank with us, that'll teach them!"
"We will sanction them"

The West sounds like a spoiled fat kid with its bluster 🤣

If only the availability of a Starbucks Latté was a factor that actually mattered in War.

I couldn't agree more.
 

MilEME09

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I don't think the Western Europeans care either, otherwise they would ween themselves off the teat of Russian Oil & Gas.

I think everyone believes the Russians are bluffing, believes they are weak and wouldn't possibly do this.

Russia will always have a card to play until Europe can become energy self sufficient, or atleast less sufficient on Russia.

The west doesn't believe Russia will play hard ball and actually invade, they think Russia won't risk the sanctions, even though they gave twice. No western leader wants to be the one to call Russia out on there shit, we all know Russia is In Ukraine, but we haven't had a moment of international embarrassment like when they were caught in Cuba. We have no cards we seem to be willing to play that will get Russia to back right off.
 

KevinB

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Russia will always have a card to play until Europe can become energy self sufficient, or atleast less sufficient on Russia.

The west doesn't believe Russia will play hard ball and actually invade, they think Russia won't risk the sanctions, even though they gave twice. No western leader wants to be the one to call Russia out on there shit, we all know Russia is In Ukraine, but we haven't had a moment of international embarrassment like when they were caught in Cuba. We have no cards we seem to be willing to play that will get Russia to back right off.
I'm not sure Russia really wants to see if NATO will react.
Unlike the Crimea - US forces are not in Afghanistan or Iraq, and thus available for combat deployment.

As far as cards go, we have a robust Int and SOF apparatus that can turn up the heat on Russia, both inside and their border puppets.

When you look at Belarus, it was racked with rioting and protests against the Lukashenko election "win", the candle there is lit - it would be easy to arm and train an insurgency that would internally take over Belarus.

I think Putin understands that not only would he be facing a Ukrainian insurgency equipped and trained by US (at min) forces - but Belarus would be also on the table then.

Crazy 8s 🤣

Not going to lie, I absolutely could not give a crap about the Ukraine, it's not worth one drop of Canadian blood.
Evil will triumph when good men doing nothing...

My view is that if Putin goes into Ukraine again - it is really not going to stop, until he's recreated the USSR to it's former borders.
A lot more blood and treasure will be lost if it isn't squashed now -- appeasement isn't a valid COA.


I don't think the Western Europeans care either, otherwise they would ween themselves off the teat of Russian Oil & Gas.

I think everyone believes the Russians are bluffing, believes they are weak and wouldn't possibly do this.

"Their GDP is so low compared to us"
"We won't let them bank with us, that'll teach them!"
"We will sanction them"

The West sounds like a spoiled fat kid with its bluster 🤣

If only the availability of a Starbucks Latté was a factor that actually mattered in War.
I don't think anyone in any sort of Mil or Gov leadership position thinks this -- I think they wish it was true - but they fully understand that Putin would and could.
The only question is what will the West do as a collective about it.
 

YZT580

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So what type of card game is Trudeau and Joly playing, ‘Uno’, hell we don’t even have 52 cards in our deck.
He is the guy standing behind the table. He has no chips in the game but he does have an opinion as to which cards the others should play. He is pandering to the Ukrainian vote knowing that he will never be called.
 

KevinB

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He is the guy standing behind the table. He has no chips in the game but he does have an opinion as to which cards the others should play. He is pandering to the Ukrainian vote knowing that he will never be called.
He's going to step on his dick. He's going to get a call from the Ukraine - and then he's going to need to look at his chips, how few he has, and if he's willing to lose them.
 

Good2Golf

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So what type of card game is Trudeau and Joly playing, ‘Uno’, hell we don’t even have 52 cards in our deck.
Yeah Trudeau is 51.9 cards short of a full deck….

Evil will triumph when good men doing nothing...

My view is that if Putin goes into Ukraine again - it is really not going to stop, until he's recreated the USSR to it's former borders.
I think Putin is moving into new territory…the USSR was a past construct that doesn’t support his own nihilistic, anarchic destructive ideology.

An interesting piece about what it is that Putin truly wants…destabilizing and causing others to feel his deliberate destructiveness against global societies against which he feels aggrieved. Ukraine destruction is but the vanguard of his lawless (or more accurately, ‘anti-law’) approach to take what he wants and destroy what others value.

WHAT DOES VLADIMIR PUTIN WANT?
CCuriously, little in-depth work examines what Vladimir Putin wants—his ultimate goals. Analyses tend to be superficial and focused on the latest manifestation of his will. It is easy to see that the Russian regime intends to dominate and neutralize Ukraine, preventing it from becoming a free and democratic regime. These are its goals in Belarus and Georgia, too, as well as the Caucasus, where it has de facto control over Armenia and a foothold in Azerbaijan, and Central Asia, where protests in Kazakhstan were immediately crushed by Russian troops. Likewise, Russia seeks to destabilize Africa, weaken Western democracies and the European Union, and encourage illiberal movements to the maximum possible extent. Finally, it seeks to corrode and ultimately render irrelevant international law, and to strengthen dictatorial and criminal regimes wherever it can—above all in Syria, but also in Venezuela, Cuba, and Myanmar. Supporting these regimes is, for Russia, a matter of principle.
More at article link.
 

Altair

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Biden needs to shutup. You can't win at poker or politics when you play with the cards face up. Every time he makes a threat he backs NATO further into a corner and limits their response.
People keep talking and acting as if America is at the height of its power.

It's not. It has elected 3 men in a row that wanted nothing more than to bring every soldier home and put America first. That's not the kind of country that is interested in enforcing its will abroad.
 

Altair

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Someone needs to call him out, publicly, and brutally honest, if we leave Ukraine out to dry, the west's word is worth nothing.
The west, the military, politicians, they called out the USA when the former president left the Kurds at the merci of the Turks, it did nothing.
 

MilEME09

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The west, the military, politicians, they called out the USA when the former president left the Kurds at the merci of the Turks, it did nothing.
Syrian chemical weapons, Iran & North Korea nuclear programs.....the list goes on
 

Good2Golf

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People keep talking and acting as if America is at the height of its power.

It's not. It has elected 3 men in a row that wanted nothing more than to bring every soldier home and put America first. That's not the kind of country that is interested in enforcing its will abroad.

11 nuclear carrier strike groups say you’re quite wrong.
 

Good2Golf

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Having the kit, and using it are two different things
Using what…the nuclear weapons in board? Conventional weapons? Other capabilities?

You mean a force-in-being is insufficient, and you judge that those CSGs won’t ever be ordered to act as a force of influence?

What as the Kuzentsov done lately to demonstrate influence?

China’s Type 002 CV?

All ineffectual?
 
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