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The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0

mariomike

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People I work with have caught people trying to go through their car and when they yell at them the only reaction from the criminal is to flip them off and walk across the street to try their neighbours doors.
FJAG, Brihard and Lenaitch would be the SME's on legality. I'm a life long gun owner. But, I've only used them for hunting.

The cops are overloaded, my one friend is a dispatcher and the cops are literally going from one higher priority call to the next with no time to address the smaller stuff.

YMMV on 9-1-1 response times. But, a Bronson response hardly seems necessary for "the smaller stuff".

Bronson style, only so long people will take being robbed and cheated with no consequences before they have had enough.

Would you go Bronson for being "cheated"?

Pretty sure most police departments offer tips on what to do, and what not to do, for protection of property.
 

Colin Parkinson

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When I was doing remote inspections of placer mines and other places, it was fairly common to be greeted by a person with a shotgun discreetly behind their back or close at hand. The Police were hours away, that's if they got a call at all. I would always knock and step back 20' and keep my hands visible. Once they establish who you are, then a coffee and chat continued. I certainly didn't mind and would want my wife to do the same in a similar situation.
 

mariomike

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When I was doing remote inspections of placer mines and other places, it was fairly common to be greeted by a person with a shotgun discreetly behind their back or close at hand.

In Toronto, male bank staff used to practice their marksmanship.

"( Bank manager ) Elwood grabbed a fully loaded .38 calibre revolver that was kept in the teller's drawer and set off in pursuit. The robber attempted to commandeer a car parked in front of the bank. The manager charged out of the bank and emptied the five shot revolver at the robber, but all the bullets missed."
Toronto Star
May 19, 1955. Toronto Dominion Bank at Dundas and McCaul.

"Although the banks don't appear to have taken security very seriously, they did issue handguns to bank staff with the expectation that if there was a hold-up, they would shoot back. There was even a secret downtown firing range in the old Bank of Toronto building where managers and tellers were expected to practice regularly. This ended only in the late 1950s after a bank staff member was killed by a ricocheting shot meant for a robber."

I remember chatting with an armoured truck guard around the time they switched from the old flap style holster to the secure type with a snap. I noticed he had the snap held open with tape. I said that looked like a good idea for a faster draw. He said he started doing that after robbers got the drop on him. He put his hands up. The robbers tried to disarm him, but couldn't figure how to get his gun released. Thought they were going to kill him. So, after that, he kept the snap taped back, for their convenience, while his hands were reaching for the sky. :)

Armoured truck guards in TO used to carry shotguns. Not just in the cab like now, but on the street too.

Not to say which times were better or worse. Just different.
 

Eaglelord17

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FJAG, Brihard and Lenaitch would be the SME's on legality. I'm a life long gun owner. But, I've only used them for hunting.



YMMV on 9-1-1 response times. But, a Bronson response hardly seems necessary for "the smaller stuff".



Would you go Bronson for being "cheated"?

Pretty sure most police departments offer tips on what to do, and what not to do, for protection of property.

I am not saying I would personally, I am just surprised others haven't yet. Be it shoot someone, or even just beating them with a baseball bat. Not saying it is legal, just amazed it hasn't happened already. There is only so much BS people are willing to take before they have had enough.

Look at Afghanistan as a easy example. If you were wronged you could either try to go through the slow and corrupt court system we imposed on them or you could go to the Taliban and they would give you results fairly quickly. Guess which path many Afghanis took... Same thing for Canada where if the police, courts, and government are failing to impose order at some point individuals will start imposing their own.

We are creating a crime crisis in our country, which might actually be the governments intent. From there they blame the firearms owners when crime skyrockets and use the misdirected anger of the voters to ban firearms in the mistaken belief it shall better the situation.
 

Eaglelord17

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That's an interesting theory. Do you have a source?
No formal source, just looking at what is happening and wondering why they would tolerating it. Hard to push fear based politics unless you have something to fear.

Thanks to Bill C-75 that the Liberals passed in 2018 criminals are automatically given bail. If they violate those conditions or break the law again, they are again given bail. Right now the police are arresting the same people over and over again, and the criminals have no fear of retaliation as they know if they are caught they shall instantly be let out (don't even spend the night in jail). Just a simple example locally they arrested one guy 3 times in a month for illegal possession of firearms and prohibited devices. How many times does this need to happen before they are kept in prison? When they finally kill someone?

The worst part is they shall use these statistics they are creating on increased gun crime and use it to target the 2 million law abiding citizens in the country. It is disgusting and there isn't much people can do about it. Locally the cops are just going from higher priority calls to higher priority calls, if you have a minor concern like a noise complaint they can't even show up anymore as they don't have the manning to keep up with the increase in calls due to the same criminals committing crimes non-stop. Its even more demoralizing for them as they feel like they are accomplishing nothing as they are making the same arrests over and over again.
 

ModlrMike

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The irony is that gun owners are generally rural, where gun crime is generally urban. Taking guns away from farmers, hunters and trappers is not going to reduce the number of murders in our biggest cities. So the question is, if we outlawed all guns tomorrow, would the situation change in any meaningful way?
 

Haggis

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It's even more demoralizing for them as they feel like they are accomplishing nothing as they are making the same arrests over and over again.
This is a common complaint among LEOs in small to medium sized communities. Often they see the seriousness/violence of offences committed by these "frequent flyers" increasing over time.
 

mariomike

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The irony is that gun owners are generally rural, where gun crime is generally urban.
Are you sure about that?

For Firearms Offences select: "Firearms Offences",

 

mariomike

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Locally the cops are just going from higher priority calls to higher priority calls, if you have a minor concern like a noise complaint they can't even show up anymore as they don't have the manning to keep up with the increase in calls due to the same criminals committing crimes non-stop.

I've always supported those politicians at City Hall who support our 9-1-1 operations .

That includes, among other things like fair pay and benefits, maintaining safe staffing levels for acceptable Response Times.

Thankfully, party politics are not involved . :)
 

Brad Sallows

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That's an interesting theory. Do you have a source?

"Common sense" is the obvious one. Politicians and bureaucrats and agencies don't accrue more power by solving problems; they do so by keeping the problems going and nudging people along. Keeping people fearful and weak is a centuries-old playbook.

Real life isn't Game of Thrones, but it doesn't mean there isn't a little bit of Game of Thrones in real life.

We have a system of justice to forestall vigilantism, and this is preferable because while vigilantism sometimes delivers justice it also easily delivers injustice. Colloquially, the police exist not to protect citizens from criminals, but to protect criminals from citizens. We delegate authority to that system and agree not to be vigilantes, but that is conditional on the system achieving what we expect it to achieve. Whether or not black letter law openly acknowledges that bargain is irrelevant.
 

Colin Parkinson

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Self defense in Canada using lethal force is allowed, however your not allowed to prepare for that situation. If you do it, the Crown will try to destroy you, mentally and fiscally. Everything you say on social media will be used against you and expect that everything you say to that sympathetic police officer will be recorded and used by the Crown to prove you are a menace. If you plan on having a firearm handy for protection, don't talk about it, watch and read the very good articles on Youtube and print done by Canadian firearm lawyers so you will know what you are in for after the initial event and be partly mentally prepared.
 

Fishbone Jones

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The irony is that gun owners are generally rural, where gun crime is generally urban. Taking guns away from farmers, hunters and trappers is not going to reduce the number of murders in our biggest cities. So the question is, if we outlawed all guns tomorrow, would the situation change in any meaningful way?
There used to be a government source we could check to see how many guns of type were located in individual postal codes. I ran most of my guns through it and was amazed at the amount of guns in a city. My postal code alone, ownership was huge. Much more than I would have ever guessed. And being more densely populated, urban areas hold way more owners than rural ones. Cities are full of hunters and target shooters.
 

ModlrMike

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Maybe I should alter my comment by saying that the perception is that gun owners are mostly rural. Certainly the Liberals and the anti gun lobby frame the argument as such. Witness "nobody needs an AR-15 to hunt".
 

Good2Golf

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ModlrMike

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If you bring a firearm to a protest, there is a near zero chance of nothing bad happening.
 
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