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PLQ / AJLC changes again....

MilEME09

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I would be very surprised if the trade schools are going to do environmental training, I can't see for example CFLTC adding field training to the HRA and FSA courses for example. I think that it will be up to the unit to do if the unit wishes them to have that training. So units in a CMBG might want it but an Air Force Wing probably not.
Some trades it makes sense, but all the ones that get attached to combat elements? Medics, sigs techs? They need that training as well.
 

SupersonicMax

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Some trades it makes sense, but all the ones that get attached to combat elements? Medics, sigs techs? They need that training as well.
I believe the CANFORGEN specifically directs to include such training in other training evolutions (such as pre-deployment training)
 
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PuckChaser

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Because 8 month predeployment training for a 6 month roto isn't long enough, lets add another few weeks.
 

medic5

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So essentially in the end we will have different courses for,
1. Infantry
2. Combat Arms
3. Non Combat Arms but attached
4. Everyone else

Who thought this was a good idea?
 

Furniture

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So essentially in the end we will have different courses for,
1. Infantry
2. Combat Arms
3. Non Combat Arms but attached
4. Everyone else

Who thought this was a good idea?

There are still only three categories of PLQ, CAF standard, combat arms, and infantry.

Now the stuff you got sent away to learn on BMQ-L will be taught at the base/unit level, rather than being a formal course that could hold up your career. There have been many Met Techs who were slowed down by needing a BMQ-L, before they could do PLQ. With staffing shortages it was hard to send techs from air bases to bases like Shilo or Pet for a month to learn skills they will likely never use in their careers, just so they could get loaded on a PLQ.
 
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MJP

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So essentially in the end we will have different courses for,
1. Infantry
2. Combat Arms
3. Non Combat Arms but attached
4. Everyone else

Who thought this was a good idea?
The system now is essentially the same as it was 20+ years ago. What is old is new again. It was fine then and it is fine now. We need to simplify our IT, not make it more cumbersome
 
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daftandbarmy

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Because 8 month predeployment training for a 6 month roto isn't long enough, lets add another few weeks.
real and true GIF
 

Halifax Tar

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Because 8 month predeployment training for a 6 month roto isn't long enough, lets add another few weeks.
No time needs to be added. I spent 8 months of 12 holding down a picnic table. I'm sure we can find 3 weeks to teach a clerk how to do 5s and 20s, and pairs live fire. You guys make the army out to be way more complicated than it is.

3/4 of Army training is just learning which end of the rifle the bullet leaves from and where to point said flashy bangy end.

Man, from field pay to environmental training to JLC courses you Army guys sure can make a mess of things ;)

Can Cbt Arms trades not just do proper QL/DP level training development progressions like the rest of the CAF ?

(1) BMQ
(2) Land Environmental
(3) Trades Trg (3,5,6 ect ect)
(3.1) Trade Specialty Course (MGs, Mortar, ect)
(4) CAF PLQ
(5) CAF ILP
(6) CAF SLP

This rings to me like the fitness test, no matter what the CAF comes out with the Army is going to need to prove its ever endangered "manhood" and make a more difficult version. I loved my time in the Army, I truly did. The one negative thing I took away from it was it is a massive penis size comparison contest with everyone clamoring to appease or be like the Cbt Arms gods. Do your job, were all just cogs in the wheel. And no we aren't all soldiers first and no not every thing we do is to support the infantry.
 
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Kilted

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No time needs to be added. I spent 8 months of 12 holding down a picnic table. I'm sure we can find 3 weeks to teach a clerk how to do 5s and 20s, and pairs live fire. You guys make the army out to be way more complicated than it is.

3/4 of Army training is just learning which end of the rifle the bullet leaves from and where to point said flashy bangy end.

Man, from field pay to environmental training to JLC courses you Army guys sure can make a mess of things ;)

Can Cbt Arms trades not just do proper QL/DP level training development progressions like the rest of the CAF ?

(1) BMQ
(2) Land Environmental
(3) Trades Trg (3,5,6 ect ect)
(3.1) Trade Specialty Course (MGs, Mortar, ect)
(4) CAF PLQ
(5) CAF ILP
(6) CAF SLP

This rings to me like the fitness test, no matter what the CAF comes out with the Army is going to need to prove its ever endangered "manhood" and make a more difficult version. I loved my time in the Army, I truly did. The one negative thing I took away from it was it is a massive penis size comparison contest with everyone clamoring to appease or be like the Cbt Arms gods. Do your job, were all just cogs in the wheel. And no we aren't all soldiers first and no not every thing we do is to support the infantry.
Trade based harassment is going to be the next thing after hateful conduct.
 

Halifax Tar

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Trade based harassment is going to be the next thing after hateful conduct.
Bud, that's been going on since Jesus was a cowboy. REMF ? FOBBIT ? KAF ?

We all have a role to play in the battle space. Someone has to fire the gun, someone has to feed the gun; and someone has to maintain the gun. Take anyone of those out and the gun breaks down, fast.
 

Kilted

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Bud, that's been going on since Jesus was a cowboy. REMF ? FOBBIT ? KAF ?

We all have a role to play in the battle space. Someone has to fire the gun, someone has to feed the gun; and someone has to maintain the gun. Take anyone of those out and the gun breaks down, fast.
I meant the next thing that is addressed.
 

Kilted

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We have all the various other issues to deal with, on top of this we can't even treat each other with respect. The mentality that if someone's job is slightly easier (even if a member of the same trade) then yours, that they are a lesser person is problematic.
 

Halifax Tar

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We have all the various other issues to deal with, on top of this we can't even treat each other with respect. The mentality that if someone's job is slightly easier (even if a member of the same trade) then yours, that they are a lesser person is problematic.
What are you going on about ? Are you trying to say the Cbt Arms folks are some how being treated with less respect now that Jr Leadership Trg in the Army is getting a corrective adjustment ?

Just an extension of targeting harassment, maybe as part of the big culture change they are talking about.
I don't see how a correcting adjustment to junior leadership training in the Army can some how lead to targeted harassment.
 

Kilted

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What are you going on about ? Are you trying to say the Cbt Arms folks are some how being treated with less respect now that Jr Leadership Trg in the Army is getting a corrective adjustment ?


I don't see how a correcting adjustment to junior leadership training in the Army can some how lead to targeted harassment.
It's not related to this discussion, it's about the current state of the military and how they have been addressing things.
 

PuckChaser

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No time needs to be added. I spent 8 months of 12 holding down a picnic table. I'm sure we can find 3 weeks to teach a clerk how to do 5s and 20s, and pairs live fire. You guys make the army out to be way more complicated than it is.

I'm sure you're smart enough to understand the difference between qualified, current, proficient and expert when it comes to training, right? When bullets end up coming back towards me from those Fig 11 targets on the range, I definitely want to be way better than "qualified" to do pairs live. Pairs live is a dangerous training event, and takes a lot of work up to do safely. We all have our biases based on our environments and trades, so maybe your trade doesn't need this training but mine definitely does, and it was removed without any nuance to that requirement.

Everyone loves to beat the strawman about HRA/FSAs (I won't say clerks so people don't get triggered) not needing Army training. No problem, remove them. The Combat Support trades require it as well as some of the Combat Service Support trades, and the Army has pushed that onto the trade schools to figure out instead of having the Combat Arms create a standard they want to see out of their enablers so they're safe and effective on the battlefield.

All this whining about BMQ-L and AJLC makes me wonder if those folks would be singing a different tune if environmental allowances were treated like spec pay: You gain it and keep it based on specific training requirements. If HRAs/FSAs don't need field training, no problem, they don't need LDA either, they can get casual.
 

SupersonicMax

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All this whining about BMQ-L and AJLC makes me wonder if those folks would be singing a different tune if environmental allowances were treated like spec pay: You gain it and keep it based on specific training requirements. If HRAs/FSAs don't need field training, no problem, they don't need LDA either, they can get casual.
This is how Aircrew Allowance is administered. You need to hold a specific qualification, be in a position designated as aircrew and hold a valid medical category to be entitled.
 
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