• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Opportunity to update the CC-150 fleet?

SupersonicMax

Army.ca Veteran
Mentor
Reaction score
609
Points
910
dapaterson said:
How many a/c were shot down on 9/11?  Zero.  OBL and his Saudi crew were well within the OODA loop, so it was irrelevant.

Similarly, a hijacked WJ 737 crashing into downtown Toronto out of Pearson would not be intercepted regardless of where Canada pre-positions fighter a/c.

Because NORAD failed in 2001, we should just give up ??? ?
 

OldSolduer

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
1,707
Points
910
CloudCover said:
Is the governments cunning plan to not buy the F35 falling apart here?
"We cant buy a new tanker because we don't know what the new fighter aircraft requires" + 'We cant buy a new fighter because we don't know what will refuel them" + "The wheels have fallen off the PM's Polaris" + "OMG we need a new PM airplane with wifi and a bidet" + "Air Force Acquisitions: where can we stick the probe/drogue on that?" + "Fighter Pilots: We have some ideas about where it should go."

And I know where the boom or drogue should go to - but what do I know - I eat red crayons for a living.
 

MilEME09

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
729
Points
940
https://www.cbc.ca/1.5850140

Oh boy we guessed right folks! Almost like they are reading this forum. Government is looking at purchasing aircraft off civilian airline industry as part of a bail out package.
 

PuckChaser

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Mentor
Reaction score
653
Points
1,060
Considering the CC-150s were purchased used, doesn't surprise me.

Excited to see what one-off random airframe they'll purchase to try to convert into a strategic tanker... because you know it won't be a A330-200 or 767-200.
 

dapaterson

Army.ca Relic
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
2,410
Points
890
Any major acquisition will examine multiple options including status quo (as a baseline).  I would guess they will look at options including Status Quo; Buy new; Buy used; Lease new and Lease used.  Within each of those options, they'd look at options for maintenance and overhaul, crewing, lifecycle sustainment, support infrastructure, training costs...

All of those considerations, (plus cost and economic benefits) are weighted and recommendations based on those are put forward. 
 

MilEME09

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
729
Points
940
PuckChaser said:
Considering the CC-150s were purchased used, doesn't surprise me.

Excited to see what one-off random airframe they'll purchase to try to convert into a strategic tanker... because you know it won't be a A330-200 or 767-200.

Airlines would likely want to get rid of older frames not newer. We would have to force them to give up say a A330 for example. That said it might be possible if its industry wide and say only ask for 1 or two aircraft from multiple airlines.
 

Good2Golf

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Mentor
Reaction score
2,787
Points
1,160
MilEME09 said:
https://www.cbc.ca/1.5850140

Oh boy we guessed right folks! Almost like they are reading this forum. Government is looking at purchasing aircraft off civilian airline industry as part of a bail out package.

Big Red and Air Transat both have 330s the GoC could buy.  I think Big Red also either leased of procured some Qatar Air 330s.  Lots of 330 MRTT fleets growing around the world, far more than KC-46.

On verra!’ :nod:
 

dapaterson

Army.ca Relic
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
2,410
Points
890
My back of the envelope solution is A330 MRTTs based out of Toronto, with a heavy Res F pilot cadre, who'd fly 9 months full-time for Air Canada on the A330 (where they'd do part-time military to keep all those non-flying quals current), and 3 months full time flying for the RCAF.  There would have to be some sort of negotiation between the RCAF, Air Canada and the pilots union, but I don't think it would be impossible.

 

SupersonicMax

Army.ca Veteran
Mentor
Reaction score
609
Points
910
dapaterson said:
My back of the envelope solution is A330 MRTTs based out of Toronto, with a heavy Res F pilot cadre, who'd fly 9 months full-time for Air Canada on the A330 (where they'd do part-time military to keep all those non-flying quals current), and 3 months full time flying for the RCAF.  There would have to be some sort of negotiation between the RCAF, Air Canada and the pilots union, but I don't think it would be impossible.

What incentive would those pilots have to give up 3 months of Air Canada salary for a (lower) Class B salary?
 

dimsum

Army.ca Fixture
Mentor
Reaction score
1,472
Points
940
MilEME09 said:
https://www.cbc.ca/1.5850140

Oh boy we guessed right folks! Almost like they are reading this forum. Government is looking at purchasing aircraft off civilian airline industry as part of a bail out package.

As much as I'd like to pat our collective backs for this, it's pretty much the same situation that got us the CC-150 in the first place (ex-Wardair planes).  Hopefully we get some A330s that can be retrofitted with the MRTT package. 
 

Good2Golf

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Mentor
Reaction score
2,787
Points
1,160
SupersonicMax said:
What incentive would those pilots have to give up 3 months of Air Canada salary for a (lower) Class B salary?

Doesn't; have to be black and white...schedule the RCAF support interleaved with their AC schedule.  The guys bid productivity vice layover with Big Red; that clears them more calendar days to augment RCAF CC-330 ops.
 

Dana381

Jr. Member
Reaction score
30
Points
280
I would love to see us get a fleet of relatively new A330's to convert but more likely GOC will be talked into taking Rouge 767's to be converted into KC-767's. That sounds more like our government as aren't those 767's totally worn out by now. The airlines won't want to give up any planes with usable life left if they can convince GOC to buy clapped out planes at 3x market price.
 

dapaterson

Army.ca Relic
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
2,410
Points
890
Pilots are not negotiating from a position of strength right now: https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/air-canada-layoffs-1.5572596#:~:text=Air%20Canada%20plans%20to%20cut,Friday's%20memo%20to%20staff%20said.
 

kev994

Sr. Member
Subscriber
Reaction score
174
Points
610
dapaterson said:
Pilots are not negotiating from a position of strength right now: https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/air-canada-layoffs-1.5572596#:~:text=Air%20Canada%20plans%20to%20cut,Friday's%20memo%20to%20staff%20said.
That’s very specifically not pilots. Flight attendants (and I think AMEs) are cross trained on different fleets. Pilots are not. It’s much more difficult to layoff (and inevitably rehire) the pilots as it needs to be done by seniority, but some of those with low seniority are actually flying. Bit of a mess.
 

KJK

Jr. Member
Donor
Reaction score
0
Points
60
According to Wiki Air Canada doesn't have any A330-200 planes which the A330 MRTT is based on however Air Transat which is supposed to be acquired by Air Canada does have -200 aircraft. Maybe this is the Federal Gov't's way of ensuring the merger goes through by taking some of the aircraft that AC doesn't want? I can't imagine the government buying any of Air Canada's old 767s. Some of them are nearly as old as the CC-150. Actually I can believe they would buy the old 767s but I hope not.
 

kev994

Sr. Member
Subscriber
Reaction score
174
Points
610
We’re looking at this all wrong. The military’s requirements are the least of the concerns for this deal. What we really need is a way to throw bombardier some money, even though they’re trying to get out of the airplane business. My money is on CRJ200.
 

MilEME09

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
729
Points
940
kev994 said:
We’re looking at this all wrong. The military’s requirements are the least of the concerns for this deal. What we really need is a way to throw bombardier some money, even though they’re trying to get out of the airplane business. My money is on CRJ200.

That plan would never meet any SOR if a RCAF officer is allowed within 5ft of the document.
 

Quirky

Sr. Member
Reaction score
127
Points
480
kev994 said:
We’re looking at this all wrong. The military’s requirements are the least of the concerns for this deal. What we really need is a way to throw bombardier some money, even though they’re trying to get out of the airplane business. My money is on CRJ200.

The CRJ200 can't fit VIPs, senior staff and pallets of alcohol in a cross-Atlantic sexual harassment drunken moral flight to eastern europe. The A330 is a much better platform in this regard. If it were up to me, I'd get in on a bunch of 737Max's and reserve it strictly for senior cabinet members.
 

CBH99

Army.ca Veteran
Donor
Reaction score
698
Points
990
Dimsum said:
As much as I'd like to pat our collective backs for this, it's pretty much the same situation that got us the CC-150 in the first place (ex-Wardair planes).  Hopefully we get some A330s that can be retrofitted with the MRTT package.


Maybe Australia is purchasing some new 330s to support their Super Hornets & Lightnings?

In which case we could purchase their old aircraft.  Adapt them to Canadian standards.  And use them to support our current fleet, while we kick the can down the road another 5 to 10 years?


Sounds so dumb & cheap that we could only picture a handful of 3rd world countries acquiring 30yo aircraft being retired from a 1st world country...  ;)
 

Cloud Cover

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
30
Points
530
How many aircraft would the feds need to buy in order to help the airlines. Surely it’s not 5 or 6.  This years winter vacation season is dead in the water, so Air Transat and Air Canada are going to eat that.
I suspect the airlines are looking to get rid of many dozens of aircraft and the feds simply can’t do that much for them. They are screwed and not much is going to change in the next few years. 
 
Top