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Liberal Minority Government 2021 - ????

Jarnhamar

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if the right actually went after real issues they wouldn’t constantly lose.

How about getting serious about him?

Serious like sexually assaulting a reporter, ethical violations, pressing the AG to bend the law, black face monkey behavior in a time when 25 year old Facebook jokes can get everyone else fired, messed up EA?

Come on, he's untouchable.
 

Remius

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Agreed current f**kery doesn't necessarily point to that kind of previous f**kery, but this is also 1000% true ....
Absolutely. He is untouchable. But his opponents have helped in making that happen,

Take Jarnhammer’s claim of sexual assault. Until you dig a bit and it looks like a case of innapropriate and unwanted touching. Not that that is good by any means, but after speculation of it being sexual assault from his detractors, when the witnesses came forward to talk, it didn’t seem as bad as sexual assault thus minimizing the whole thing.

And to make matters worse, people brought it all I to the light without even asking the victim which made them, the detractors look worse.

So yes. Maybe get serious with what and how and maybe something will stick.

But as I said. He won’t be running again.
 

Jarnhamar

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Absolutely. He is untouchable. But his opponents have helped in making that happen,

Let's not over look the apathy of Canadians to not give a shit about stuff when it's convenient to do so.

Take Jarnhammer’s claim of sexual assault. Until you dig a bit and it looks like a case of innapropriate and unwanted touching . Not that that is good by any means, but after speculation of it being sexual assault from his detractors, when the witnesses came forward to talk, it didn’t seem as bad as sexual assault thus minimizing the whole thing.

Are you saying that a man groping a woman without consent isn't considered sexual assault under the criminal code of Canada?
 

Remius

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Let's not over look the apathy of Canadians to not give a shit about stuff when it's convenient to do so.



Are you saying that a man groping a woman without consent isn't considered sexual assault under the criminal code of Canada?
Again. The exact details about what happened have never surfaced. The woman in question made a statement and closed the discussion.

Are you saying unwanted touching or in appropriate behaviour is sexual assault?
 

Jarnhamar

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The reporter made a statement that Trudeau did exactly as it was reported and then chose not to pursue it.

Unwanted touching is assault. When you're groping someone, it's sexual assault.

Assault

265 (1) A person commits an assault when

(a) without the consent of another person, he applies force intentionally to that other person, directly or indirectly;

(b) he attempts or threatens, by an act or a gesture, to apply force to another person, if he has, or causes that other person to believe on reasonable grounds that he has, present ability to effect his purpose; or

(c) while openly wearing or carrying a weapon or an imitation thereof, he accosts or impedes another person or begs.

Marginal note:Application

(2) This section applies to all forms of assault, including sexual assault, sexual assault with a weapon, threats to a third party or causing bodily harm and aggravated sexual assault.

Marginal note:Consent

(3) For the purposes of this section, no consent is obtained where the complainant submits or does not resist by reason of

(a) the application of force to the complainant or to a person other than the complainant;

(b) threats or fear of the application of force to the complainant or to a person other than the complainant;

(c) fraud; or

(d) the exercise of authority.

Marginal note:Accused’s belief as to consent

(4) Where an accused alleges that he believed that the complainant consented to the conduct that is the subject-matter of the charge, a judge, if satisfied that there is sufficient evidence and that, if believed by the jury, the evidence would constitute a defence, shall instruct the jury, when reviewing all the evidence relating to the determination of the honesty of the accused’s belief, to consider the presence or absence of reasonable grounds for that belief.

The Criminal Code defines it as any touching of another person without their consent where the touching is of a sexual nature, or where the sexual integrity of the alleged victim is violated.
 

Remius

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The reporter made a statement that Trudeau did exactly as it was reported and then chose not to pursue it.

Unwanted touching is assault. When you're groping someone, it's sexual assault.



The Criminal Code defines it as any touching of another person without their consent where the touching is of a sexual nature, or where the sexual integrity of the alleged victim is violated.
Right, so I had a Sgt under investigation under OP Honour for putting his hand on a subordinate’s back at a non work related function. Unwanted touching. Sexual assault?

Again, the accusation of what went down was never disclosed in Trudeau’s case. Never tried in court. So guilty?
 

daftandbarmy

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Right, so I had a Sgt under investigation under OP Honour for putting his hand on a subordinate’s back at a non work related function. Unwanted touching. Sexual assault?

Again, the accusation of what went down was never disclosed in Trudeau’s case. Never tried in court. So guilty?

Well, after all, he did have a good excuse, right? :)


'People experience things differently,' Trudeau says of groping allegations​


 

Remius

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Well, after all, he did have a good excuse, right? :)


'People experience things differently,' Trudeau says of groping allegations​


You are all missing my point.

His opponents make things bigger than they are. So when the facts come out, and they don’t seem as big a deal as they were made out to be.

“OMG age sexually assaulted her!” Sounds bad. Is bad. But then it comes out that it was innapropriate behaviour or unwanted touching at a beer festival. Is that still bad? Yes, but it’s now watered down now because people, made it into something it wasn’t.

Like this under age student thing.
 

Jarnhamar

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When someone says "groping" what comes to mind to you?

Your sergeant could be charged with assault IAW 265 (1).

I'm not surprised the specifics of what went down were never disclosed, Trudeau has no shortage of people ready to dismiss any wrongs he does and I suspect downplaying sexual assault would be right up there (edit-not suggesting this is you)


His opponents make things bigger than they are
If your partner came up to you and said someone at work was groping them would you suggest the person was just being inappropriate? And it's just like the sergeant at your work putting their hand on someones back? I doubt it.
 

Remius

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Again. Missing the point.

If you say sexual assault people think the worst. Like rape.

Unwanted touching, as bad as it is, is not rape.

When this initially broke people made it sound like he raped her. So when more details come out from third parties and second hand accounts it minimisée the situation because people didn’t have their facts straight.

Keep in mind we are talking about the court of public opinion here. Nothing has been tested in court, at all.

In the court of public opinion people can believe or not believe whatever they want.
 

TacticalTea

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Look I want Trudeau gone as much as the next guy, but you're stretching it by a mile there, @Jarnhamar.

Remius' point about the deflated public interest notwithstanding, there's not a whole lot scandalous about unwanted touching in the first place. If you flirt with someone, at some point you're gonna get there, and since no one can read others' minds, you might or might not find out it was a mistake. Was it strictly speaking ''unwanted touching''? Sure.

That does not make it criminal behaviour. There's always two components to the latter. Actus reus vs Mens rea.
 

Jarnhamar

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Groping someone seems to fit the definition of sexual assault in Canada to me. If someone familiar with the legal system tells me I'm wrong then I'm just wrong.


Man charged with sexual assault after 2 women groped in downtown Vancouver
Police have arrested a 23-year-old man and charged him with two counts of sexual assault after two women were groped in downtown Vancouver.

The first victim, 29, said she was sexually assaulted by a stranger outside the Vancouver Art Gallery on Saturday. She called 911 right away.

Minutes later, a 24-year-old woman said she, too, was groped, while walking near West Georgia and Thurlow streets. A witness called 911 and followed the suspect from a distance, the Vancouver Police Department said Monday.




I agree 100% about the Conservatives habit of blowing everything out of proportion. It detracts from real issues. It's so stupid of the Conservative PR engine I often wonder if it's done on purpose.
 

QV

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This country quite deserves Trudeau right now. I mean I hope that changes, but... it could actually get worse (cough Freeland).
 

YZT580

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This country quite deserves Trudeau right now. I mean I hope that changes, but... it could actually get worse (cough Freeland).
Too true. Read Jordan Peterson in the National Post either today or yesterday for confirmation of that and where it is leading us. I'd copy it in but I only have an unattributed copy.
 

QV

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How is she worse, in your view?
She will be worse in so far as many voters will mistakenly believe her direction for this country will be different, an improvement, from Trudeau‘s. She is just going to carry on this train wreck under a new fresh face. Her barely disguised glee for freezing citizen’s bank accounts earlier this year ought to be a giant warning.
 
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