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Gas Diesel or JP-8 ??? -Another reason to hate the LSVW

Devlin

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A story from everyones favorite author "slight sarcasim here" ;)


Fuel change renders military‘s fleet of light trucks obsolete
Trucks run on diesel while other nations‘ fleets require kerosene-based fuel

a journalist
CanWest News Service


Monday, January 26, 2004

The military‘s $278-million fleet of light trucks is all but useless for overseas missions because the diesel they run on isn‘t readily available and Canada‘s allies are switching to a different type of fuel to operate in their vehicles.

The problems centre on the Canadian Forces Light Support Vehicle Wheeled or LSVW which runs on diesel. But over the years NATO nations have switched to a kerosene-based fuel called JP-8 which can be used in both aircraft and vehicles. That has left the 2,800 Canadian-made trucks high and dry on overseas missions where diesel would not readily be available from allied military depots or too costly to transport from Canada in large quantities.

"The Army cannot rely on this vehicle for operations outside of Canada," warns a blunt assessment of the LSVW‘s deficiencies produced last year by the military.

Colonel Bob Gunn, who oversees the army‘s equipment needs, said the switch over to JP-8 has all but sidelined the LSVW for overseas missions. "We can‘t take them into an operational theatre," Gunn acknowledged.

"It‘s a diesel truck. You go on a NATO operation and they‘re running JP-8."

The army decided against using significant numbers of LSVWs in Afghanistan for that reason. Gunn said the military has redesigned a few of the trucks to run on JP-8 and may be using those in Afghanistan. But overall the conversion program was found to be too costly since engines and other key components had to be replaced, he noted.

JP-8 is considered by NATO as providing better mileage and being safer and easier to handle. The fuel also provides excellent performance in extreme cold weather.

The decision to phase out gasoline and diesel and replace them with JP-8 over a 22-year period was supported by NATO and the U.S. defence department in 1988, according to American military documents. Canadian military officials, however, say that NATO didn‘t make the formal decision until last year.

Switching to one fuel for all allied armies is seen as a key move in simplifying the supply system for troops in the field.

The problem with the LSVW, delivered to the army starting in 1994 by Western Star of Kelowna, B.C., is the latest in a series of issues dogging that truck fleet. Critics complained that the decision by Brian Mulroney‘s Conservative government to buy the truck was politically motivated and an attempt to win votes in British Columbia. They argued at the time that the vehicle was not suited for Canadian military use.

LSVW engines have also caught fire, damaging or destroying a number of the trucks. The truck‘s brakes are also extremely noisy, warning enemy forces well in advance of the presence of Canadian soldiers.
 

Doug Van Tassel

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It‘s kind of funny, since only one SMP vehicle that the Canadian Forces uses runs on gasoline! The LSVW isn‘t the only diesel, what about HLVWs, MLVWs, AVGPs, LAVs, Coyotes? I guess it doesn‘t matter about the obvious?
 

Marauder

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They argued at the time that the vehicle was not suited for Canadian military use.
LMFAO The LS isn‘t suitable for ANY military‘s use, nor farm use.... ****, come to think of it, the thing has no use. Whoever in the CF rubberstamped that purchase to keep Parliment Hill happy should have been taken out in front of NDHQ and shot for treason and sedition. (Can you tell I don‘t like the LS yet?)

Further to Doug‘s point, it was my understanding that the LUVW‘s were going to be diesel as well, replacing the Iltis which was the last gas powered SMP veh.
As for the Americans not using diesel, well I just spent three days bouncing around in an American Humvee on an American base, and the bowser and jerry cans that we refilled with were full of... you guessed it, diesel. I think Pugilese should find another beat to walk. He‘s RTFO.
 

Franko

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We got LOTS of diesel here in Yugo. And guess what? EVERYONE from every contingent fuels up in our camp prior to leaving...with diesel. I agree with Marauder....

Pugilese is off his rocker. I hope this is someone‘s idea of a joke!

Regards
 

Kirkhill

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www.mdn.ca/site/community/mapleleaf/html_files/html_view_e.asp?page=vol5-33AIRFORCE

Maybe this is what he got ahold of. In Sep 2002 the Air Force announced it was going to standardize on JP8. For a bunch of reasons but primarily cost and interoperability.

One of its other selling points apparently was that it COULD BE USED to replace diesel. It doesn‘t say here that it was going to replace diesel just that it could. Maybe in an emergency or maybe longterm as part of a single fuel strategy.

If we accept that JP8 has a lower energy density than Diesel maybe what the person feeding a journalist was saying was that the LSVW, which a lot of you seem to be saying is under powered as it is, would become so underpowered as to be completely useless.

On that basis, perhaps the other diesel kit is considered to have enough power reserves that it can still function with the lower energy JP8 fuel.

Just supposition. I would be interested in what the reality is.

Kirkhill
 

pegged

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I read this article also, this morning heh, you beat me to posting it.

Here‘s another article about trucks, except this time about how they need to be fixed.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20040125.wtruck0125/BNStory/National/
 

Colin Parkinson

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I was asking this question on another forum and never got an answer. Since the LSVW is based on the Italian Iveco truck, has anyone asked how the Italians like them? Was the original design flawed or was it the result of it being â Å“Canadianizedâ ??

You certainly won't want a modern pickup to replace it, they are very poorly built nowdays, most logging companies have to replace their pickup fleet every 5 years or so. The Pinzauger as used by the Brits and many other nations would be a good choice.
 

John Nayduk

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I was in Fort Hood the same time as Marauder. The jerry cans we had said diesel but on the side of bowser had JP8 on it. I remember because it stuck out to me.
 
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LSVW catches on fire for no reason. Stupid cold weather start. Another reason, they sound soo GAY.

We caught one of fire durring the hurrican here, right on someone‘s lawn lol, last time i saw it it was a blob of fiberglass in wheels. yah yah, everybody was safe, except kit. shucks.

Just was running, then burst in flames.
 

Colin Parkinson

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Sounds like Fractured injector pipes. this could easily be fixed by changing the design/material of the pipes leading to the injectors. When you do your DI, look for cracking on corners and near the flares, also the return line outlet could be a suspect. It is a simple deduction. for fire you need 3 things, fuel,heat,air. the heat can come from only two sources on a deisel, either the electrical system or the exhaust/turbo are hot enough. For a fire to start on the exhaust , you will need heated fuel under presurre to start a fire. if the fire is electrical, then you will have a distinct smell just as the fire breaks out. has anyone have more details on the fires?
 
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