• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

FORCE 2025: Informing the Army’s future structure

markppcli

Member
Reaction score
109
Points
530
If we're not currently manning our rifle companies at full establishment then why not pair each Reg Force company with a Reserve Regiment to round out the numbers that way?
The better question is why are we insisting on maintaining unit's who's manning numbers exceed our total PYs?
 

markppcli

Member
Reaction score
109
Points
530
Armor Defense Platoon?

I don't like the LAV as an Infantry Recce Vehicle
Also your Snipers - are they housed back inside of Recce Platoon - or still a separate "Platoon Minus"

Doctrinally the 120mm Mortar is an Artillery weapon - but given the recent (last 20 years) changes - I am unsure if Doctrine matters anymore as no one else seems to follow it...
The few times Recce has had LAVs they were more like... mother ships for ATV based patrols if that makes sense. A bit more punch and filled to the brim with ammo, food, and water, or dip and contraband ;), to enable extended Ops.
 

McG

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
302
Points
880
The better question is why are we insisting on maintaining unit's who's manning numbers exceed our total PYs?
When talking CAF organizations & establishments, “manning” is used to describe the number of people actually in the unit. If manning is low, then there are fewer people than PYs. If “ manning numbers exceed our total PYs” then there are more people than authorized on establishment. Language matters because the system will ignore a unit that complains of being undermanned while guardian shows it to be at 95% of establishment.

We need to be better at explaining that we are under established. So I think you are asking:
The better question is why are we insisting on maintaining unit's who's required establishment exceed our total PYs?
 

KevinB

Army.ca Fixture
Reaction score
1,180
Points
910
When talking CAF organizations & establishments, “manning” is used to describe the number of people actually in the unit. If manning is low, then there are fewer people than PYs. If “ manning numbers exceed our total PYs” then there are more people than authorized on establishment. Language matters because the system will ignore a unit that complains of being undermanned while guardian shows it to be at 95% of establishment.

We need to be better at explaining that we are under established. So I think you are asking:

Because you could actually field three Brigades of soldiers and a Div HQ, if the fulcrum was the field force - rather than redundant HQ's, and all sorts of other positions to hide Senior NCO's and Senior and General Officers.

Not enough equipment for a Div - and arguable not enough equipment for any credible Brigade in a High Intensity conflict.
But enough for a Div in Low Intensity OOTW.
 

Kirkhill

Army.ca Legend
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
743
Points
1,060

mutt-jrtc-opfor.jpg



The U.S. Army says mock enemy troops, also known as the Opposing Force, or OPFOR, have employed unmanned ground vehicles in an exercise for the first time. The OPFOR used them to help deny access to possible helicopter landing zones and set up blocking positions along roads, among other tasks.

The exercise in question took place at the Army's Joint Readiness Training Center (JRTC) at Fort Polk in Louisiana in September. The JRTC's resident OPFOR unit is 1st Battalion (Airborne), 509th Infantry, which is also known by the nickname Geronimo. This battalion received two General Dynamics Land Systems (GLDS) unmanned Multi-Utility Tactical Transports (MUTT) to help it square off against soldiers from the 3rd Brigade Combat Team, 101st Airborne Division.

“With these units, the human survivability rate increases significantly,” Sergeant First Class Eugene Lackey, a soldier from Geronimo's Pathfinder Company, said about the exercise. “This system allowed us to close with and destroy the enemy safely from a distance. It [also enabled] us to the find the enemy before he could find us. It is a great tool and I wish we could have it for little bit longer to really see how we can change the way wars are fought.”

The MUTTs that Geronimo used in the exercise are 8x8 wheeled unmanned ground vehicles (UGV) in the one-and-a-half-ton class. GDLS also offers smaller 4x4 and 6x6 versions, as well as tracked variants in all three size classes. All of the members of the MUTT family have hybrid-electric propulsion systems that offer improved fuel efficiency compared to similarly-sized vehicles powered by more conventional internal combustion engines. In addition, this allows them to operate very quietly at low speeds and while in static positions, and reduces their thermal signature.

Geronimo's MUTTs were each configured with a Common Remotely Operated Weapon Station (CROWS) equipped with a 7.62mm M240 machine gun and a Javelin anti-tank guided missile (ATGM) launcher, as well as a tethered quadcopter unmanned aerial system. The drone has an array of video cameras that allow it to provide additional surveillance and reconnaissance capacity, as well as act as a signal relay, extending how far the UGVs can operate from their human operators.

message-editor%2F1634744732086-mutt-project-origin.jpg

US ARMY
One of the Army's MUTTs during a different exercise in 2020.

The operators control the UGVs through a software suite that can be installed on various types of computer systems, including ruggedized laptops. The MUTTs are capable of some degree of semi-autonomous operation, including moving to designated coordinates, but, at least at present, humans are in the loop at all times and are in direct control of the onboard weapons and sensor systems.

The MUTTs are part of an experimental fleet the Army has been using as part of Project Origin, an effort to explore future concepts of operations involving UGVs. The service is in the process of acquiring various tiers of unmanned ground platforms to support a variety of missions. In 2019, the Army had actually selected GLDS' MUTT as the winning design for its Squad Multipurpose Equipment Transport (SMET) program, but a formal protest from another entrant, Howe and Howe, led to the scrapping of that deal and the rebooting of the competition

"The Geronimo force used the Project Origin platform to block a key intersection for 36 hours, an effort that benefitted from Origin’s low heat signature while conducting long hours of battery-powered 'silent watch,'" according to the Army. "In addition, Geronimo used the Project Origin vehicles to deny helicopter landing zones and conduct route reconnaissance."
 

Brad Sallows

Army.ca Fixture
Reaction score
977
Points
910
Isn't 15 Fd a band with a secondary role as artillery?

I've seen them fire as a 6-gun battery, indirect and open sights, on the Yakima prairie. Shame if that's no longer possible. I wonder who bears responsibility for throwing that away.
 

FJAG

Army.ca Fixture
Reaction score
1,898
Points
1,040
Isn't 15 Fd a band with a secondary role as artillery?
All jokes aside, I like reserve and volunteer bands. They're a lot less expensive to the public purse and seen more in public than the Reg F ones. The Ceremonial Guard Band is one great example. The numerous volunteer Reg F bands are another. By my count we have six Reg F bands left and we have some 52 Res F and 15 volunteer Reg F ones.

I don't know if there is a critical mass of Reg F bandsmen required to keep the trade vibrant but it strikes me that we could do with a total of three or four Reg F bands. The Res F count would go down with the oh so necessary amalgamation of Res F units.

I'm not so concerned about the fact that they've never worked a gun; like cooks and admin clerks they have a separate purpose and most are volunteers and, unless things have changed, many are unpaid and/or civilian volunteers.

🍻
 

Kirkhill

Army.ca Legend
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
743
Points
1,060
Army reserve has more bandsmen than truck drivers, mechanics, or supply technicians.


The trucking and logistics sector employs 3.6% of Canada’s workforce, translating to more than 650,000 workers. Truck drivers account for 300,000 employees, while 90,000 people are in shipping and receiving, 70,000 are courier service drivers, 38,000 are material handlers at warehouses and distribution staff. The remainder are managers, supervisors, administrative staff, and accounting personnel.

While the number of truck drivers has increased by more than 80,000 people in the past two decades, the rate of increase has slowed to an average of 4,100 drivers per year over the past decade, compared to 5,500 per year over the previous decade.

Rather than training these people, why aren't we recruiting them?

And yes I know there is a general shortage

Canada is expected to be short 25,000 truck drivers as early as 2023, representing a 25% increase over the unfilled vacancies in 2019, Trucking HR Canada reports.

Unfilled jobs in 2018 are also estimated to have cost the trucking industry about $3.1 billion in lost revenues, slowing planned expansions by 4.7%.

 

Brad Sallows

Army.ca Fixture
Reaction score
977
Points
910
Army reserve has more bandsmen than truck drivers, mechanics, or supply technicians.

Paid positions? Details are foggy, but my recollection is the Res F bands (in BC at least) became mostly volunteer; the 15 Fd band was chosen to be the one that would continue to be funded. Mind, the way things are, I can believe that a platoon+ band might have more members than whatever remains of any one of those trades across all of 39 CBG.

Are there 52 funded Res F bands?
 

Colin Parkinson

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
1,804
Points
940
As I mentioned in the C3 replacement thread, when the band was housed in the armoury, they also fielded a gun crew and took a lot of pride in doing so. Of course that was back in the day when as a reserve unit, 15th FD we could field a full 6 gun battery, two command posts, 2-3 Op teams, a flying kitchen, sigs truck, ambulance with a real doctor and nurse. Plus a ammo party with 1-2 trucks mostly made up from our OR female clerks who also did a damm good job.
 

dapaterson

Army.ca Relic
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
2,408
Points
890
There are more reserve pers in the three musician MOSIDs than in either MSE Op, Veh Tech or May Mgr Tech.
 

Kirkhill

Army.ca Legend
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
743
Points
1,060
Because most folks looking at the part time reserve want something different from what they already do all day.

True enough. So teach truck drivers how to be soldiers. They already know how to be truck drivers - if and when they are needed.
 

daftandbarmy

Army.ca Relic
Reaction score
4,577
Points
1,060
There are more reserve pers in the three musician MOSIDs than in either MSE Op, Veh Tech or May Mgr Tech.

Unconsciously and coincidentally, accurately reflecting the 'Vital Ground' for the reserves as defined by our highest levels of leadership :)

"What you do speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you say." Ralph Waldo Emerson
 

markppcli

Member
Reaction score
109
Points
530
When talking CAF organizations & establishments, “manning” is used to describe the number of people actually in the unit. If manning is low, then there are fewer people than PYs. If “ manning numbers exceed our total PYs” then there are more people than authorized on establishment. Language matters because the system will ignore a unit that complains of being undermanned while guardian shows it to be at 95% of establishment.

We need to be better at explaining that we are under established. So I think you are asking:
Yes thank you, that’s what I meant.
 
Top