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Canadian Federal Election 44 - Sep 2021

dangerboy

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The Bread Guy

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Can you imagine being so narcissistic that you damn a whole country because you're a petulant child ?
Like others have said up-thread, makes perfect sense if you see your role as that of spoiler, not interested in taking power, but in changing the narrative and/or getting the spotlight without the messiness of coming up with a party infrastructure or herding members at the edge of the ideological herd.
Stop me if you think that you've heard this one before

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-liberals-ranked-ballot-1.6181216

... Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau says he remains open to getting rid of Canada's first-past-the-post electoral system if his party is re-elected, provided there's consensus on the issue — something he says was lacking in the past ...
... and as long as there are more than a miniscule minority saying, "uh, you know, if we go to (prop-rep/insert some other option), our odds of forming any majority to get things done without bending to others", there will never be consensus.

Meanwhile, from the bought-and-paid-for media 😉 ....

NP View: Erin O'Toole and the Conservatives are right for Canada


Our recovery calls for a government that takes these things seriously ...
 

Remius

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Max doesn't control the 35-60% of voters who typically vote LPC or NDP.

I see a few PPC signs around. People who have voted CPC for several elections are not "narcissistic" if the CPC rewards their loyalty by promising to do things for people who have not voted CPC for several elections. It may be the fate of the left and right "bases" to always turn up at the ball and never be asked to dance, but they are not "narcissistic" for following someone else around the room after being spurned.
I think he was saying the leader was narcissistic not the voters.

At any rate, I was listening to the radio this morning and they had an interesting break down of who is actually supporting the PPC, at least poll wise. Around 1/3rd are the traditional PPC supporters. 10% are disaffected liberals, a few greens and NDP with the bulk being angry conservatives and people that normally don’t vote. The PPC seem to be the “anti vax” party as most are lashing out and restrictions and mandatory actions being taken at all levels.
 

The Bread Guy

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There, FTFY :)

Toronto Liberal candidate who paused campaign under review by military over dropped sexual assault charge ...​

Aspiration to get to Parliament Hill firing alright, aspiration - STOPS!
... On Saturday, the Liberals announced they would drop a candidate over a 2019 sexual assault charge that the party said was not disclosed to them. Kevin Vuong, a naval reservist running in an open Liberal seat in downtown Toronto, denied the allegations on Friday, noting the charge was withdrawn.

"Mr. Vuong will no longer be a Liberal candidate, and should he be elected, he will not be a member of the Liberal caucus," the party said in a statement on Saturday ...
 

PuckChaser

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I think he was saying the leader was narcissistic not the voters.

At any rate, I was listening to the radio this morning and they had an interesting break down of who is actually supporting the PPC, at least poll wise. Around 1/3rd are the traditional PPC supporters. 10% are disaffected liberals, a few greens and NDP with the bulk being angry conservatives and people that normally don’t vote. The PPC seem to be the “anti vax” party as most are lashing out and restrictions and mandatory actions being taken at all levels.
Anti-vax and anti-forced vax or vaccine hesitant people are completely different. There's a ton of folks who are fully vaccinated for everything else and get annual flu shots, but are hesitant about any of the COVID-19 vax. A good portion of them also feel if you want to roll the dice on ending up in an ICU with COVID, that's on you, but there shouldn't still be restrictions on people who did the right thing.

Throwing around "anti-vaxxer" as a pejorative is just a way to dismiss someone's opinions without actually having intelligent debate or discussion.
 

Good2Golf

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brihard

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Aspiration to get to Parliament Hill firing alright, aspiration - STOPS!
He’ll probably get the seat, at that. It’s a very safe Liberal riding.

Meanwhile the erstwhile CPC candidate who got dumped for various racist Twitter posts is a third place also-ran wel behind the second place NDP in a “Safe Liberal” riding, so she won’t figure in any real terms.
 

Remius

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Anti-vax and anti-forced vax or vaccine hesitant people are completely different. There's a ton of folks who are fully vaccinated for everything else and get annual flu shots, but are hesitant about any of the COVID-19 vax. A good portion of them also feel if you want to roll the dice on ending up in an ICU with COVID, that's on you, but there shouldn't still be restrictions on people who did the right thing.

Throwing around "anti-vaxxer" as a pejorative is just a way to dismiss someone's opinions without actually having intelligent debate or discussion.
That’s why I used quotations.
 

LittleBlackDevil

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I think he was saying the leader was narcissistic not the voters.

At any rate, I was listening to the radio this morning and they had an interesting break down of who is actually supporting the PPC, at least poll wise. Around 1/3rd are the traditional PPC supporters. 10% are disaffected liberals, a few greens and NDP with the bulk being angry conservatives and people that normally don’t vote. The PPC seem to be the “anti vax” party as most are lashing out and restrictions and mandatory actions being taken at all levels.

While I recognize your use of quotes around "anti vax" I would just add my own commentary that the term is very misleading. The media and other political opponents are using the term as a pejorative to belittle and "other" the people who are supporting the PPC. True, there is a contingent of PPC voters/supporters who are idiots, but in my encounters the vast majority are normal people, most of whom got on the PPC train over mandatory/forced vaccinations rather than over the vaccinations themselves.

I think there is a gigantic difference between being "anti vax" and being "anti vax mandate".

Also, my impression of Maxime Bernier, having spoken to him on a number of occasions and knowing people who know him is that he's not narcissistic. The first time I spoke to him I was actually very surprised at how unassuming and humble he came across, since I went into that meeting expecting he'd be an arrogant used car salesman type. I was among those who was quite salty towards him for starting the PPC shortly before last election and had a very bad opinion of him based on conversations with CPC people. At this point I think it's hard to say that the PPC isn't offering something totally different from what the CPC offers so it doesn't seem like temper tantrum to me but taking a principled stand and wanting to offer Canadians that choice.
 

brihard

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While I recognize your use of quotes around "anti vax" I would just add my own commentary that the term is very misleading. The media and other political opponents are using the term as a pejorative to belittle and "other" the people who are supporting the PPC. True, there is a contingent of PPC voters/supporters who are idiots, but in my encounters the vast majority are normal people, most of whom got on the PPC train over mandatory/forced vaccinations rather than over the vaccinations themselves.

I think there is a gigantic difference between being "anti vax" and being "anti vax mandate".

Also, my impression of Maxime Bernier, having spoken to him on a number of occasions and knowing people who know him is that he's not narcissistic. The first time I spoke to him I was actually very surprised at how unassuming and humble he came across, since I went into that meeting expecting he'd be an arrogant used car salesman type. I was among those who was quite salty towards him for starting the PPC shortly before last election and had a very bad opinion of him based on conversations with CPC people. At this point I think it's hard to say that the PPC isn't offering something totally different from what the CPC offers so it doesn't seem like temper tantrum to me but taking a principled stand and wanting to offer Canadians that choice.
Sure. The CPC offers the opportunity to actually have seats in the House of Commons and a chance at forming or at least influencing government. You’re right that the PPC offers something different from that.
 

LittleBlackDevil

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Sure. The CPC offers the opportunity to actually have seats in the House of Commons and a chance at forming or at least influencing government. You’re right that the PPC offers something different from that.

I think that the "strategic voting" argument and "a chance at forming or influencing government" argument only works if the party in question offers SOMETHING on the topic that the voter is concerned about.

Also, I would argue that there is more than one way to influence government. Your argument seems to be that certain voters should vote CPC even though they disagree with CPC, because CPC has a chance of winning ... yet those same people might actually have more influence over the CPC and change the trajectory of that party by voting PPC and showing the CPC they cannot take certain votes for granted without ever giving that base anything in return for their decades of loyalty.

From yet another perspective, those who want the CPC to jettison "SoCon" or "far right" from the party, having those people lured away by the PPC is a good thing, no? It then frees the party to move further leftward without embarrassing votes happening at CPC conventions anymore.
 

The Bread Guy

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... those who want the CPC to jettison "SoCon" or "far right" from the party, having those people lured away by the PPC is a good thing, no? It then frees the party to move further leftward without embarrassing votes happening at CPC conventions anymore.
That for sure makes life easier for the CPC.

Also, it's always good to see political participation/engagement, even if I disagree with the ideas being shared - or, in some cases, how they're being propagated.

That said, voting for the PPC in the current environment may express an opinion, but the chances of it leading to people being chosen under the PPC banner of being elected are still slim. In this mix, it also increases the odds of the incumbent getting back in - something I think people all along the political continuum aren't going to be happy with.

Like this guy said ....
Screenshot 2021-09-18 153807.jpg
 

Remius

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Jarnhamar

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Before you click the link let's play a game. Do you think this is from 2015, or 2021?

Justin Trudeau says he is open to replacing first-past-the-post electoral system if Liberals elected​

Paywall
 

daftandbarmy

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Before you click the link let's play a game. Do you think this is from 2015, or 2021?

Justin Trudeau says he is open to replacing first-past-the-post electoral system if Liberals elected​

Paywall
Animated GIF
 
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