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Canadian Federal Election 44 - Sep 2021

QV

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You do them. Every time you ask for proof or sources or whatever and someone ponies up you use the tired bought media line, government conspiracy to suppress or whatever crazy theory is out there. Stay blind. I don’t care, your party isn’t going to win so it’s moot. If anything it’s spurring the LPC supporters to come out. Well done PPC, well done. Split the vote and ensure the liberals win again.

You obviously missed my point or the articles about the type of people the PPC attracts. Especially the ringing endorsement it got from white nationalist groups telling their members to vote PPC.

You’ve done nothing or provided anything to disprove anything I sourced. So…ok.
I'm not making accusations a political party is a racist party, so I don't have to prove that which I don't assert and I equally don't have to try and disprove something that is not proven.

In each of your sources you cited, once found out, the problem was removed. There is no doubt Max Bernier has his work cut out for him trying to keep the party clean and get established. It's an up hill battle between the extreme fringe right looking for a political home, media spending their billions in bailouts on hit pieces, and the CPC hiring firms to smear the PPC. It's certainly ugly business.

How dare the PPC. Only the LPC, NDP, and CPC should be allowed.
 

Remius

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I'm not making accusations a political party is a racist party, so I don't have to prove that which I don't assert and I equally don't have to try and disprove something that is not proven.

In each of your sources you cited, once found out, the problem was removed. There is no doubt Max Bernier has his work cut out for him trying to keep the party clean and get established. It's an up hill battle between the extreme fringe right looking for a political home, media spending their billions in bailouts on hit pieces, and the CPC hiring firms to smear the PPC. It's certainly ugly business.

How dare the PPC. Only the LPC, NDP, and CPC should be allowed.
You said to to do the other parties. Do them yourself. I provided my evidence. You failed to refute them with any. Like I said…ok. I’m not asking for any evidence. Just pointing out that you haven’t refuted anything with any sources just the same old bought media or government suppression line.

So I maintain my assertion that the PPC attracts racist and white nationalists. Why is that?

Everyone is allowed, and the LPC will cheer the PPC the whole way.
 

The Bread Guy

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Only one poll, but intriguing comparisons (trying to find the specific poll still) ....
... The typical Canadian has about an even chance of thinking Canada is letting in too many immigrants — 47 per cent of the country feels that way, and that includes three in five Conservatives, half of Bloc voters, a third of Liberal and NPD voters — but a whopping 83 per cent of PPC voters. PPC voters are way more likely than the rest to favour a very hands-off approach to gun control and regulation; the typical Conservative is a lot closer to a Liberal or NDP voter on this issue than they are a PPC voter.

But that’s about what you’d expect for a vaguely libertarian party that has been publicly critical of immigration. It gets weirder from here.

Roughly a third of Canadians (35 per cent) agree that the government is stripping away personal liberties; with Conservative and Green voters answering in the affirmative more often than NDP and Liberals. By comparison, 89 per cent of PPC voters believe the government is stripping away their liberty. Almost 90 per cent of PPC voters further agree that their governments are creating “tyranny” over the population. To put that in context, only about 40 per cent of Conservatives feel that way, with the other major parties way behind.

Oh, and here's a cheerful one to chew over: Wright asked Canadians if they'd agree that "we are on the verge of a revolution in our society to take our freedom back from governments who are limiting it." That question received 32 per cent support nationally — but an incredible 84 per cent from PPC supporters ...
If link doesn't work, text also attached for purposes of research, private study or education under the Fair Dealing provisions of Canada's Copyright Act.
 

Attachments

  • theline.substack.com-Matt Gurney We know who the PPC voters are Heres what they believe.pdf
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QV

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Only one poll, but intriguing comparisons (trying to find the specific poll still) ....

If link doesn't work, text also attached for purposes of research, private study or education under the Fair Dealing provisions of Canada's Copyright Act.
Interesting data. I think an equivalent exaggerated perspective would be the climate alarmism on the left. On one side you have "the government is tyrannical" and on the other "we have just 10 years left (said 50 years ago)".

I subscribe to more moderate perspectives which I think the majority of people would agree with:

1. We should be very cautious what extra powers we grant the government over it's citizens; and
2. We need to be good stewards of the environment without destroying our resource sector.

I think the PPC should get as much air time as the NDP/LPC on these issues. But considering (and Remius won't like these very obvious facts) the media skews heavily left and is bailed out by hundreds of millions by the incumbent LPC/NDP unofficial coalition, there will absolutely be bias in the coverage.
 

Brad Sallows

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But that’s about what you’d expect for a vaguely libertarian party that has been publicly critical of immigration.

Another reason not to tag them "libertarian". Libertarians basically favour much more open borders. To the extent they would be critical of our immigration policy, I'd expect them to say it's too elitist.
 

Fishbone Jones

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I read that Bernier hasn't done much to formalize his party. No constitution, no by-laws, no board, no gathering of the minds (candidates), no brain trust. I looked a bit, but couldn't find anything. I'm sure there's an election team. Probably mostly volunteers. Candidates are asked to sign a pledge, saying they won't embarrass the party, will be guided by bernie's principles and send it in with a resume. That easy. Since the party was bernier's idea, and not a movement, the policies are his and his alone, not debated and selected by the members. Basically, just Max running things. Sounds a tad dictatorial. How long has the party been established? To me, if you want a real party going after the top job, these things would be in place. Otherwise, it might look like your just trying to be the fly in the ointment, or a spoiler. He reminds me of Bob Rae, running for Ontario Premier. Lots of outrageous promises, saying what people wanted to hear, but never expecting to be elected to fulfill those promises. Then he woke up the next day as Premier and ended up trashing the province, because there was no real plan to govern. Of course as soon as he was ousted he, also being a Laurentian Elite, put his liberal uniform back on and started haunting the halls of Ottawa and Montreal once again.
 

Quirky

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If anything, Kenney has clearly demonstrated what opening without restrictions looks like. Anti lockdown, anti vax types take note. Imagine how effed up our health system would be right now if the PPC were in power.

Cut the unvaccinated anti-vaxxers off from timely access to healthcare and this problem solves itself overnight.
 

mariomike

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Cut the unvaccinated anti-vaxxers off from timely access to healthcare and this problem solves itself overnight.
Do you think any of Canada's political parties would support that?

From what I have read, my understanding is:

The same ethics that guarantee life-long smokers "timely access to healthcare" to be treated for lung cancer, also apply to Covid treatment for the unvaccinated.

There is a caveat, if the vaccinated patient is considered to have a better chance of survival, they may get triage priority over an unvaccinated patient.

In the field, triage priority ussually goes to the person(s) with the best chance of survival. Regardless if they were wearing seat-belts, helmets etc.

I have been reading that some employers may be withholding death benefits from unvaccinated workers. So, that might motivate some to get the shot.
 

Quirky

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Do you think any of Canada's political parties would support that?

From what I have read, my understanding is:

The same ethics that guarantee life-long smokers "timely access to healthcare" to be treated for lung cancer, also apply to Covid treatment for the unvaccinated.

There is a caveat, if the vaccinated patient is considered to have a better chance of survival, they may get triage priority over an unvaccinated patient.

In the field, triage priority ussually goes to the person(s) with the best chance of survival. Regardless if they were wearing seat-belts, helmets etc.

I have been reading that some employers may be withholding death benefits from unvaccinated workers. So, that might motivate some to get the shot.

No one has the balls, like your average Canadian, to demand access to healthcare be restricted to the anti-vaxers. I would've thought the PPC would be the first to implement it in their policy, but they are completely the opposite. While smokers and obese cause their own issues in the hospitals, they don't overflow ICU's and stress out our healthcare system. At least the tax revenue generated from cigarette sales cover off, mostly, the healthcare costs. Until they start setting up tents outside hospitals and stuff all the unvaccinated outside, nothing will change. We will run out of nurses long before ICU beds and ventilators anyway.
 

The Bread Guy

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.... Since the party was bernier's idea, and not a movement, the policies are his and his alone, not debated and selected by the members. Basically, just Max running things ... How long has the party been established? To me, if you want a real party going after the top job, these things would be in place. Otherwise, it might look like your just trying to be the fly in the ointment, or a spoiler ...
Could be that's what he wants to be - for now, anyway. Getting all the fun of attacking without having to settle in and govern & ride herd on members.
 

Colin Parkinson

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If anything, Kenney has clearly demonstrated what opening without restrictions looks like. Anti lockdown, anti vax types take note. Imagine how effed up our health system would be right now if the PPC were in power.
It would look a lot like Sweden
 

Halifax Tar

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You cannot start denying citizens access to our single payer health care program period, all stop.

That's simply a veiled threat against freedom of choice.

To do that sets a precedent and opens a Pandoras Box we don't want to peer into.

There is no fix for this. But the virus may act in culling those who don't believe it's lethality.
 

RangerRay

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I read that Bernier hasn't done much to formalize his party. No constitution, no by-laws, no board, no gathering of the minds (candidates), no brain trust. I looked a bit, but couldn't find anything. I'm sure there's an election team. Probably mostly volunteers. Candidates are asked to sign a pledge, saying they won't embarrass the party, will be guided by bernie's principles and send it in with a resume. That easy. Since the party was bernier's idea, and not a movement, the policies are his and his alone, not debated and selected by the members. Basically, just Max running things. Sounds a tad dictatorial. How long has the party been established? To me, if you want a real party going after the top job, these things would be in place. Otherwise, it might look like your just trying to be the fly in the ointment, or a spoiler. He reminds me of Bob Rae, running for Ontario Premier. Lots of outrageous promises, saying what people wanted to hear, but never expecting to be elected to fulfill those promises. Then he woke up the next day as Premier and ended up trashing the province, because there was no real plan to govern. Of course as soon as he was ousted he, also being a Laurentian Elite, put his liberal uniform back on and started haunting the halls of Ottawa and Montreal once again.
I always that the PPC was nothing more than a vanity project for Bernier. This just proves it.

Edited to remove extra quotes.
 

daftandbarmy

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I don't care for his politics but I thought that Blanchet was brilliant during the debate, in many ways, especially the way he seized on the opening question and turned it into a huge political lever for his party.

It might just 'accidentally' tip the balance away from the Liberals, and other parties, in PQ:


Controversial question in English debate may have galvanized Bloc voters​


At a bowling alley in Montreal's east end on a weekday afternoon, Réal Desrochers is playing in his weekly league and also considering his choices in next week's federal election.

Desrochers had been planning to vote Liberal, but a key moment in last Thursday's English-language leaders' debate galvanized identity sentiments in Quebec and spurred him to change his mind and choose the Bloc Québécois led by Yves-François Blanchet.

"For me, it's because the Bloc will balance the situation in Ottawa," Desrochers said. "I know he won't form a government, but he will defend Quebec [in Parliament]."

Desrochers called the moment "a direct attack on Quebec, and I don't like it."

 

suffolkowner

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How many votes do the liberals or NDP siphon off each other? How many votes do the PPC siphon off the conservatives? Where does the Green vote go, with a party that self destructed? All the signs suggest another minority Liberal government, likely smaller than last time, but the Conservative vote is always under reported in polls?
 

brihard

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but the Conservative vote is always under reported in polls?
Genuine curiosity, not a challenge: do you have a source substantiating that? Is there a history of the CPC outperforming the polls immediately preceding Election Day?
 

suffolkowner

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Genuine curiosity, not a challenge: do you have a source substantiating that? Is there a history of the CPC outperforming the polls immediately preceding Election Day?
Not really just an impression I've had for a while that I can always add a couple percentage points to the Conservative popular vote and usually a couple seats to what is projected.

This is 338's record so far

 
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