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Are we becoming too Politically Correct?

dimsum

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You had exactly the same reaction from sailors wives in Canada, the UK and the USA when "women-at-sea" was introduced.

We made it work within the confines of a warship ... Grow up women of San Diego.
You can still find some USN sailor's social media posts against women onboard ship. A lot of them are, unsurprisingly, retired folks.

If you are worried that your partner might cheat because they're working and sleeping near other people, then it's at least partially your hangup and a lack of trust in your partner not to cheat.
 

HiTechComms

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Isn't the
You can still find some USN sailor's social media posts against women onboard ship. A lot of them are, unsurprisingly, retired folks.

If you are worried that your partner might cheat because they're working and sleeping near other people, then it's at least partially your hangup and a lack of trust in your partner not to cheat.
Isn't the divorce rate in the Military like 75% and its usually the civi spouse that cheats?

Worked in the Energy industry and they had a saying in the camps. "If you haven't been divorced yet you soon will be"
 

Mediman14

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Depends what you mean by whether it counts or not. There's a big chance the rules have changed since this happened to you, I'm talking about current stuff.

If that happened today could your ex-girlfriend put in a harassment complaint against your female colleague because of what she said about you? Yes she could submit it, but it wouldn't meet the criteria as harassment since the comments were about you and not her. So the CO could dismiss it. Shes not being harassed.

Could you submit a harassment complaint against your female coworker because of? Yes you could, and (in my opinion) it would meet all of the criteria for harassment so it could go forward and be investigated.

Under the current rules a WO can't dismiss an official harassment complaint.

Just to add I think this newer system is more robust and better than in past. I remember the days when someone who was pissed off would accuse everyone who looked at them of harassment and the CAF would investigate regardless of how stupid or frivolous the accusations were. Having a criteria, again just guessing, makes it more fair.

Are you talking about a DND work place?
I have personally seen a MWO flat dismiss an official harassment complaint against a CO. In fact, the MWO response was, "he is the CO, he can say and do what he wants". I was one of the harassment personnel in the unit. I simply asked who is the contact at HQ .. I was denied several times for a contact at HQ. Say what you like, this is a MWO who has no testicular fortitude, a spineless leader, just for a promotion, ignoring what was right.
 

Mediman14

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Society is changing no matter what, whether we like it or not, we all have to adapt to it. It almost gets to the point where it is best to stay home! Even when you do that, sometimes the neighbors are thinking you are weird or you are hiding something! If it's not already, it's becoming a crazy world!
 

daftandbarmy

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If you look on some of the / satire / sites there is a ribbon for that. I did say SATIRE. :coffee:
Coincidentally, the word 'ribbon' is in the news alot these days:

Support far and wide for 10-year-old Sask. Indigenous student shamed over ribbon skirt​

Isabella Kulak, a member of the Cote First Nation in Saskatchewan, wore her ribbon skirt to school last month when it held a formal day before Christmas break.

 

brihard

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I find a lot of this weird. I’ve done well and gotten along just fine so far by not being a scumbag. I work for women in the next two levels of my chain of command; I work alongside several, and women have worked for me including coaching one of my recruits on the road. Never a complaint or a problem; the balance of friendly but professional has never been something I’ve found difficult.

Am I telling the same jokes and stories I would have in high school or as a new guy in the army? No. But some of the things I said and did then were shitty and cringeworthy when I look back now.

I don’t see political correctness run amok... Just an expectation that we treat each other with respect. That’s inherently reasonable. Just because people got away with being crass or disrespectful in the workplace for a long time doesn’t mean the problem is that they can’t anymore.
 

dimsum

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Am I telling the same jokes and stories I would have in high school or as a new guy in the army? No. But some of the things I said and did then were shitty and cringeworthy when I look back now.
Yep, and same here.

But, as I read before, if you're feeling cringey about stuff you've done in your younger days, that means you've matured. That's not a bad thing.
 

daftandbarmy

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I find a lot of this weird. I’ve done well and gotten along just fine so far by not being a scumbag. I work for women in the next two levels of my chain of command; I work alongside several, and women have worked for me including coaching one of my recruits on the road. Never a complaint or a problem; the balance of friendly but professional has never been something I’ve found difficult.

Am I telling the same jokes and stories I would have in high school or as a new guy in the army? No. But some of the things I said and did then were shitty and cringeworthy when I look back now.

I don’t see political correctness run amok... Just an expectation that we treat each other with respect. That’s inherently reasonable. Just because people got away with being crass or disrespectful in the workplace for a long time doesn’t mean the problem is that they can’t anymore.
I have had three COs who I would describe as misogynist a$$holes. Nothing was ever done about it, of course, sadly even though it was common knowledge.

More proof that COs don't have alot of the right kind of oversight, much of the time.

I called one of them on it, once. It was pretty clear that he thought I was some kind of freak. I'm glad to say that karma caught up with him later.
 

YZT580

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Yep, and same here.

But, as I read before, if you're feeling cringey about stuff you've done in your younger days, that means you've matured. That's not a bad thing.
And how many stories in the news feature just such cringey (great word) actions by leaders who did and said really stupid things 20 years ago? Perhaps a moratorium in the press on anything not criminal after 10 years might be appropriate.
 

mariomike

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I work for women in the next two levels of my chain of command; I work alongside several, and women have worked for me including coaching one of my recruits on the road.
I don't know if you folks have permanent 40-hour a week partnerships? Ours were. Some lasted for decades. You're cooped up with that person, so, you get to know each other's habits ( good and bad ) pretty well.

I only had one female work partner. So, I'm hardly an expert on the subject. Except to say, it was the happiest time of my career.

I don't mean that the way it might sound. There was none of that. She just had a natural soothing and calming effect.
 

Jarnhamar

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I don't know if you folks have permanent 40-hour a week partnerships? Ours were. Some lasted for decades. You're cooped up with that person, so, you get to know each other's habits ( good and bad ) pretty well.
What were your worst habits?
 

brihard

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I don't know if you folks have permanent 40-hour a week partnerships? Ours were. Some lasted for decades. You're cooped up with that person, so, you get to know each other's habits ( good and bad ) pretty well.

I only had one female work partner. So, I'm hardly an expert on the subject. Except to say, it was the happiest time of my career.

I don't mean that the way it might sound. There was none of that. She just had a natural soothing and calming effect.
God no. Two member cars? I wish. No, my rookie was in the car with me for her first two months, but that’s it.
 

mariomike

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God no. Two member cars? I wish. No, my rookie was in the car with me for her first two months, but that’s it.
It takes a special courage to be a police officer in any environment. My dear uncle served on the old Metro force. But, at least here, they ride in pairs, and know backup is never far away. :salute:

( I think during certain hours, one per car is ok. It's in their agreement. But, during Covid, I read they may make a temporary return to one per car, for health reasons. )
 

Humphrey Bogart

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I have had three COs who I would describe as misogynist a$$holes. Nothing was ever done about it, of course, sadly even though it was common knowledge.

More proof that COs don't have alot of the right kind of oversight, much of the time.

I called one of them on it, once. It was pretty clear that he thought I was some kind of freak. I'm glad to say that karma caught up with him later.
I don't actually think the problem is political correctness per se, I think it's more that so many people in Western Society are passive-aggressive, on all sides.

Playing the victim
Avoiding direct communication
Evading problems
Feigning compliance
Obstructionism

Canadians and Americans are both really good at all of the above.
 

YZT580

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I don't actually think the problem is political correctness per se, I think it's more that so many people in Western Society are passive-aggressive, on all sides.

Playing the victim
Avoiding direct communication
Evading problems
Feigning compliance
Obstructionism

Canadians and Americans are both really good at all of the above.
all those plus refusing to take responsibility for their own actions: blaming something or someone else for their own failures
 

AKa

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As well, I don't think the system has devised a way to deal with the perpetually offended or the malicious. There are complaintants who cannot be mollified by anything less than harsh and public punishment of those who have offended them. Sometimes there is a mental health aspect to it, but nevertheless, these (luckily fairly rare) individuals create massive workloads and often poison workplaces. Reasonable, empathic people hear their tales of misuse and provide sympathy and support. And the normal, well-meaning coworkers and supervisors who have to respond to the accusations of harassment and abuse of power are left tainted and frustrated.

It leaves people very nervous about addressing personnel issues with any controverial implications. You don't actually have to do anything wrong to end up on the wrong side of a harassment complaint. And even eventual vindication may not address the negative affects on your reputation and career.
 

daftandbarmy

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I don't actually think the problem is political correctness per se, I think it's more that so many people in Western Society are passive-aggressive, on all sides.

Playing the victim
Avoiding direct communication
Evading problems
Feigning compliance
Obstructionism

Canadians and Americans are both really good at all of the above.
Three COs who can get away with obviously anti-female policies, unconstrained by the Bde Comd, suggest that something else might be going on too....
 
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I don't actually think the problem is political correctness per se, I think it's more that so many people in Western Society are passive-aggressive, on all sides.

Playing the victim
Avoiding direct communication
Evading problems
Feigning compliance
Obstructionism

Canadians and Americans are both really good at all of the above.
If anything we need more political correctness. There is too much Homophobia present in the Military and people buy too much into an outdated concept of masculinity, when we know now from the science that gender is fluid and all gender roles are simply constructs of problematic western society (A systematically racist society).

Soldier in the New Canadian army need to be trained and informed of their misconceptions. Inherit biases, toxic masculinity etc. this is common knowledge at this point and many other institutions, government and other wise are already installing programs and training courses to make this happen.

Political Correctness is a politically motivated label, used in an attempt to hinder natural progress towards a tolerant society. Peoples backlash towards this probably stems from a fearful ego, white fragility or internalized trauma, that prevents mainly men from opening up and allowing themselves to show emotion and their natural feminine side.

Hope fully we get much more programs and restrictions/punishments put in place to help guide the Canadian military on the right path.
 

LittleBlackDevil

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I don't actually think the problem is political correctness per se, I think it's more that so many people in Western Society are passive-aggressive, on all sides.

Playing the victim
Avoiding direct communication
Evading problems
Feigning compliance
Obstructionism

Canadians and Americans are both really good at all of the above.

I think you make a very good point. This is definitely a Canadian and American thing. My wife is Polish, and she has definitely noticed this but also sometimes struggles with relationships because Polish culture is very direct and people don't like that she engages in direct communication rather than avoiding it, attacks problems head-on rather than ignoring them, etc.
 
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