Topic: Feds to announce home bases for new fighter jets

[old medic]

Feds to announce home bases for new fighter jets

By BRYN WEESE, Parliamentary Bureau
http://www.winnipegsun.com/news/canada/2010/09/08/15286941.html

OTTAWA — Canada’s new fleet of 65 F-35 stealth fighter jets will likely be based in Quebec and Alberta.

Defence Minister Peter MacKay is expected to announce the details Thursday at CFB Bagotville, Que. His parliamentary secretary, Laurie Hawn, is making a similar announcement at CFB Cold Lake, Alta.

In July, MacKay announced Canada would buy 65 of the Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter fifth-generation stealth jets being made by Lockheed Martin for $9 billion, with the total cost expected to hit around $16 billion once maintenance costs are included.

The first of the new jets is scheduled to arrive in 2016 and will replace Canada’s ageing fleet of CF-18s.

Opposition parties have criticized the jet purchase, the largest military procurement in Canadian history, as a sole source deal that is too rich for Canada’s needs.

The government maintains there was competition for Canada’s new plane in the 1990s under the previous Liberal government, who agreed to pay around $150 million to help develop the F-35.

The United States, by comparison, is buying more than 2,000 F-35s and interoperability with the U.S. is one reason, according to military analysts, why Canada should buy them, too.

Last month, the government defended the purchase of the new jets when Russian bombers were intercepted by CF-18s flying close to Canadian airspace in the Arctic.

[belka]

How is this news?

Since we need new infrastructure to support these new aircraft anyways, why not move the squadrons to more favorable and strategically important locations (ie near major cities)? Can't comment on conditions out East, but the fighter community out West would be better off moving out of hickville and into a location where people might actually enjoy their time away from work. ....... Heard Comox has plenty of room for new hangars.   

[George Wallace]

How is this news?

Since we need new infrastructure to support these new aircraft anyways, why not move the squadrons to more favorable and strategically important locations (ie near major cities)? Can't comment on conditions out East, but the fighter community out West would be better off moving out of hickville and into a location where people might actually enjoy their time away from work. ....... Heard Comox has plenty of room for new hangars.   

When did they start letting "Big City kids" into the Air Force?

[CDN Aviator]

Heard Comox has plenty of room for new hangars.   

LMAO. If the fighters were ever to move to Comox permanently, there would be a valley wide uprising. People in the surrounding area complain about the noise from the cadet tow planes..........some people in the PMQs complain about the swishing noise the gliders make............

[George Wallace]

LMAO...........some people in the PMQs complain about the swishing noise the gliders make............

There's that swishing again.  Do the gliders wear kilts?         (Its after midnight)

[ArmyRick]

Belka, that is one of the dumbest reasons to move an air force fighter base to big city areas.

I am not an air force expert but here are a few thoughts;
1. Where they are best able to react to domestic threats should be top of the list (Alberta and Quebec look pretty good to me);
2. They need uninterupted air space to train. Trying to bob and weave around civilian air traffic might be a head ache;
3. That would add far more additional cost when existing facilities exist in Bagotville and Cold Lake. This purchase is already under scrutiny from the public and the opposition.

Lets not add fuel to the fire

Any Air Force types who have more of a clue, want to add something?

[Dimsum]

While ArmyRick has good points, I'll play devil's advocate and say that Nellis AFB in Las Vegas is a large fighter and training base.

[captloadie]

While ArmyRick has good points, I'll play devil's advocate and say that Nellis AFB in Las Vegas is a large fighter and training base.

On the edge of a huge dessert where no one is going to complain about noise or airspace violations. Even Trenton has silent hours now, and it is arguably the centre of the air transport world. Anyone know why? Yup, because people who decided to build luxury homes under the flight path decided the noise bothered them. The thundering noise of F-35s would probably harm the whales and the Bald eagles so the west coast would be a no go.

[George Wallace]

It amazes me how stupid people really are.  If you live near an airport you should expect to hear the sound of aircraft.  Those living in PMQs are left with little choice, accept the noise or buy a house away from the Base.  Those who don't live in PMQs should know better than to buy a house near the "noise zone". 

It amazes me that a person would buy a house near a railroad track and then complain about the noise and vibration of trains passing, or a person would buy a house near a pig farm and then complain of the smell and blame the farmer. 

belka

You had a choice.  You made it.   You have to live with your choice.  Cold Lake is a gigantic Training Area.  The airforce has loud jet aircraft.   

[Odie441]

Good choices considering all of the infrastructure already exists to support the current fighters. As for the Nellis comment, it and Luke AFB (Phoenix) wew there a long time before the cities grew up. Nellis aircraft must transit close to 75 miles to the range area in the desert before they can commence training. Cold lake has Primrose Range 5 minutes off the end of the Runway(s). CL is also home of AFTTC which holds Exercise Maple Flag every year. So, it makes sense to put the fighters in Bagtown and Cool Pool.

http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/4w-4e/mapleflag/index-eng.asp

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maple_Flag

 

[Simian Turner]

It amazes me how stupid people really are.  If you live near an airport you should expect to hear the sound of aircraft.  Those living in PMQs are left with little choice, accept the noise or buy a house away from the Base.  Those who don't live in PMQs should know better than to buy a house near the "noise zone". 

It amazes me that a person would buy a house near a railroad track and then complain about the noise and vibration of trains passing, or a person would buy a house near a pig farm and then complain of the smell and blame the farmer. 

belka

You had a choice.  You made it.   You have to live with your choice.  Cold Lake is a gigantic Training Area.  The airforce has loud jet aircraft.

George, living even 10 kms SE from Petawawa you still hear the guns and machine guns fire, loud enough for the dogs to hide in the crawl space.  As for beside the tracks, it is a shrewd (buy low) investment for when the railway ceases to use those tracks and your investment skyrockets (as it did through Petawawa).       

Living near an airport it depends on the changing winds affecting flight paths.

[milnews.ca]

It amazes me how stupid people really are.  If you live near an airport you should expect to hear the sound of aircraft.  Those living in PMQs are left with little choice, accept the noise or buy a house away from the Base.  Those who don't live in PMQs should know better than to buy a house near the "noise zone". 

It amazes me that a person would buy a house near a railroad track and then complain about the noise and vibration of trains passing, or a person would buy a house near a pig farm and then complain of the smell and blame the farmer. 

I've seen lots sold here in Thunder Bay with some sort of declaration one has to sign which says, "yeah, I know it's near an airport/railway yard, and there's gonna be noise" to prevent backlash later.  Any such documentation in use anywhere else?

[PuckChaser]

CFB Kingston lost its ability to use the ranges after 11 pm (making night shoots in summer near impossible). We also can't use T-Flashes anymore, regardless of hours (that might be because there's no EOD here). The Gore is now a glorified driving path in the woods, and makes military training ridiculous.

[belka]

belka

You had a choice.  You made it.   You have to live with your choice.  Cold Lake is a gigantic Training Area.  The airforce has loud jet aircraft.

Don't get me wrong, I love the job aspect of Cold Lake and I love fighters. I've been to almost every Wing in the CF and they've all been too slow and quiet for my tastes in comparison. I would gladly stay with the fighters for the rest of my career.

LMAO. If the fighters were ever to move to Comox permanently, there would be a valley wide uprising. People in the surrounding area complain about the noise from the cadet tow planes..........some people in the PMQs complain about the swishing noise the gliders make............

I think that YQQ was there long before than most of the surrounding towns. I especially like the people who build new houses on the cliffs at the end on rwy12 THEN complain about the noise. I really hope they enjoyed their evenings during the olympics.

The US has fighter bases or fighters based next to major cities in many states, don't see why we can't have the same.   

[dapaterson]

There's always Downsview.  Or Billy Bishop (Toronto Island).  Can't imagine anyone in Hogtown complaining about a fighter base.  Though the PLD cost would bankrupt the CF...

[Brutus]

I don't know...I tend to think that having the new jets stationed on the West Coast, the East Coast, Southern Ontario  and in the North would make sense.

[GK .Dundas]

Don't get me wrong, I love the job aspect of Cold Lake and I love fighters. I've been to almost every Wing in the CF and they've all been too slow and quiet for my tastes in comparison. I would gladly stay with the fighters for the rest of my career.

I think that YQQ was there long before than most of the surrounding towns. I especially like the people who build new houses on the cliffs at the end on rwy12 THEN complain about the noise. I really hope they enjoyed their evenings during the olympics.

The US has fighter bases or fighters based next to major cities in many states, don't see why we can't have the same.

Why can't we have bases next to major cities? Betty Kennedy 's kid is why !
 Sometime in the mid 70s a CF 5 taking off from CFB Winnipeg lost both engines after take off the pilot managed to direct the plane into a empty field and punched out . ( the pilot was the son of Toronto Broadcaster Betty Kennedy)
The Local MP who was a Tory who on more then one occasion  had talked about giving the reserves "real" A/C like the CF 5 I guess .  He  got several hundred complaints from his constituents.
As an aside most MP's view 1 letter or phone call as the equivalent of 1000 calls or letter.
 the MP reversed his position and demanded the Government do some about these dangerous Military A/C endangering his precoius votes,,,,,,.......... err , I ment voters!

[milnews.ca]

The official word....

While visiting 3 Wing Bagotville, Quebec, the Honourable Peter MacKay, Minister of National Defence, announced today that sixty-five F-35 Lightning II fighter jets will be based at Canadian Forces Base Bagotville and Canadian Forces Base Cold Lake.

“The acquisition of sixty-five F-35 Lightning II aircraft is the realization of our Government’s key commitment under the Canada First Defence Strategy to acquire a fifth generation fighter aircraft,” said Minister MacKay. “I'm pleased to announce 3 Wing Bagotville in Quebec and 4 Wing Cold Lake in Alberta will equally serve as operating bases for Canada's new fighter jets. This provides continued and significant economic opportunities for these two communities.”

Delivery of the Canadian Forces sixty-five F-35 Lightning II jets is expected to start in 2016. We expect that no less than twenty-four operational aircraft will be located at each of the wings, with the intent of maintaining a 50-50 balance between the fighter squadrons. The remaining F-35s will be attached to a training squadron at a location to be announced in the future.

“Canada’s operational needs will be best served through continued use of the existing basing and infrastructure that are already supporting our fighter jet operations,” stated Laurie Hawn, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence, during an infrastructure announcement at 4 Wing Cold Lake. “This announcement gives local authorities and businesses the certainty they need for long-term planning.”

“3 Wing Bagotville and 4 Wing Cold Lake have long and proud histories of protecting Canadian and North American airspace at home and contributing to coalition operations abroad,” said Lieutenant-General André Deschamps, Chief of the Air Staff. “With the arrival of the F-35 Lightning II,both fighter Wings will be well equipped to be at forefront of fighter operations to 2050 and beyond.”

3 Wing Bagotville and 4 Wing Cold Lake are vital components of the Air Force and the Canadian Forces, and they will continue to support the strong readiness posture that has marked the military’s operational success, at home and abroad. Canadian Forces personnel are key to maintaining the institutional agility that is essential to mission success, and the addition of the F-35 Lightning II fighter fleet at 3 Wing and 4 Wing will help them protect the safety and security of Canadians well into the 21st Century.

[ArmySailor]

LMAO. If the fighters were ever to move to Comox permanently, there would be a valley wide uprising. People in the surrounding area complain about the noise from the cadet tow planes..........some people in the PMQs complain about the swishing noise the gliders make............

I second this - as somebody who was on the receiving end of the tow plane complaints........

No minqueries this summer (yet)

[Old Sweat]

Why can't we have bases next to major cities? Betty Kennedy 's kid is why !
 Sometime in the mid 70s a CF 5 taking off from CFB Winnipeg lost both engines after take off the pilot managed to direct the plane into a empty field and punched out . ( the pilot was the son of Toronto Broadcaster Betty Kennedy)
The Local MP who was a Tory who on more then one occasion  had talked about giving the reserves "real" A/C like the CF 5 I guess .  He  got several hundred complaints from his constituents.
As an aside most MP's view 1 letter or phone call as the equivalent of 1000 calls or letter.
 the MP reversed his position and demanded the Government do some about these dangerous Military A/C endangering his precoius votes,,,,,,.......... err , I ment voters!

I doubt if that crash had any effect at all on where we base our limited amount of fighter aircraft.

In any case, I know the pilot very well and Betty Kennnedy was his stepmother.

[Good2Golf]

"You're buying a house beside an airport/impact area" waivers mean NOTHING. 

Everyone loves to be protected, but loves even more not being inconvenienced by the training/operation of those protecting them.  CF units across the country are continually affected by people who bought "just down the road" and don't want to hear the sound of freedom, even the "high-speed, low-drag, no-sparks" folks have to move because of the owners of the big, glitzy houses beside them that were built well after the original facilities were constructed and employed.


GK.Dundas is bang on with this bit!!!

...As an aside most MP's view 1 letter or phone call as the equivalent of 1000 calls or letter...

Cheers
G2G

[Newt]

Wait... what?

Two Members of Parliament (avec assorted handlers and assistants) have to be transported to two separate Wings to release the same statement? This very important statement is that the fighter bases for the new fighters will be: (drum roll) The same as the bases for the old fighters!

Wow. Just wow.

[medicineman]

Yeah, on the bright side, they're going to Bagotville and Mold Lake - not exactly the junkets taggers on hope for.  Pity Goose Bay or Iqualuit aren't being included - crappy weather season is almost upon them  .

MM

[Strike]

I know residents of Smuggler's Cove in Kingston sign a waiver stating they will not complain about the aircraft noise.  There are also certain locations in Moose Jaw where one cannot insure their house for damage due to falling aircraft parts as they are under a flight path.

People can be really stupid.  I recall taking complains from people about the Sea Kings conducting water bird training in the lake behind the airfield.  Wait a sec.  Shearwater was one of the first airfields in Canada.  Where was your house when the airfield came in to being?

[FoverF]

When chicken number 1 hatches, we'll have him nest on the top shelf.
And when chicken number 2 hatches, we'll have her nest on the bottom shelf.
And when chicken number 3 hatches, we'll have him nest next to chicken number one on the top shelf.
We'll eat chicken number 4, because it will be biggest.


I'll just go ahead and hold my breath now, since it's a done deal for the government 2 successive elections from now to go ahead and put 65 fighters on the ramp at Cold Lake and Bagotville...