Topic: CF Replaces "Arty-Sim-ed" Porta Pottie @ Gagetown

[Jim Seggie]

This thread reminds me of the SCTV skit - Farm Film Report.

"It blowed up"

"Blowed up reel gud"

[LineJumper]

Heh heh heh, I loved SCTV. I always liked the garbagecan full of water with said arty sim tossed in the SSF showcase.

[SeaKingTacco]

I recall a night platoon attack during my Ph 2 Artillery Course where paraflares got used like M-72s.  It is a wonder that any of us lived through the 80s...

[SprCForr]

Arty sims in Gagetown. Chainguns in Suffield. Range fires in Wainwright.

Poor defenceless blue rockets! 

[Jim Seggie]

I recall a night platoon attack during my Ph 2 Artillery Course where paraflares got used like M-72s.  It is a wonder that any of us lived through the 80s...

One of my peers did this on ex in the mid 80's and bragged about it. I just shook my head and wondered where some people got their brains.....they heard trains and took a slow one.

[LineJumper]

Heh heh heh, I remember when we changed from the pull string para-flare to the twist type. One of the troops was about to launch and I noticed he was wearing the wool inserts.

"You might want to put on leather or take those off, otherwise WHOOOOSH.....Thunk!". "Damn, that burned my glove!". "Yep, slippery sucker eh?"

Ah well, now we contend with that slide safety that I find is somewhat sticky in the cold environment.

[a Sig Op]

The safety isn't too sturdy, if it sticks, a good solid twist, the safety fails, and the flare fires.

It's enough to stop it from firing accidentally, but the first dozen or so of the newest ones I fired I couldn't actually figure out how the safety worked, I just twisted hard and it fired.

Don't know if anyone's thrown the "new" t-flashes, but they seem to be safer then the old ones... the tubes are sturdier and wrapped in plastic, they blow out the ends, rather then exploding in the centre... makes spotting duds harder, but in the even one ever went off in your hand, you'd probably have a better chance of walking away with your fingers...

[ArmyRick]

Reference the arty sim in an ammo can demonstration. My course WO did the same demo on my QL3 Infantry (Wainwright PPCLI). Funny.

Damn thing blew sky high and came down all warped.

[tango22a]

Can remember when a certain Regiment acted as Enemy during an exercise in the early 70s. We were mounted on Lynxes and M113s and I can remember more than a few paraflares hitting our vehicles. A big blob of light hitting the trim vane of my M113 and ricocheting overhead. And then there was the infanteer we captured with about twenty thunderflashes inside his combat shirt with the handles cut off, leaving only the charge !!! And then there was the bright soul who fired a 20 Pounder  blank across  an open 21/2 ton loaded with gas in jerry cans.

Boy we sure were stupid (and exceedingly lucky!!) in our younger days.


tango22a

[Jim Seggie]

Reference the arty sim in an ammo can demonstration. My course WO did the same demo on my QL3 Infantry (Wainwright PPCLI). Funny.

Damn thing blew sky high and came down all warped.

thats cuz your crse WO was warped....

[kj_gully]

The units I was in in 80z early nineties, the only pyro we saw was during the helmet/ammocan "safety" demonstration. Maybe the section 2ic might be lucky enough to get a pains wessex smoke, so we could get our nostrils all purple. Nothing keeps the troops safe like not having pyro to issue! If anyone would have wasted an arty sim on an EMPTY blue rocket (now you know where the nickname comes from) i would want them charged for wasting a good piece of battle sim

[TN]

I recall a night platoon attack during my Ph 2 Artillery Course where paraflares got used like M-72s.  It is a wonder that any of us lived through the 80s...

Ha! I had a young Pte (OPFOR) fire a paraflare like it was a RPG at a Griffon! This was around Area 50.. in Gagetown.

[recceguy]

Ha! I had a young Pte (OPFOR) fire a paraflare like it was a RPG at a Griffon! This was around Area 50.. in Gagetown.

I hope you ensured he was charged.

[NFLD Sapper]

Ha! I had a young Pte (OPFOR) fire a paraflare like it was a RPG at a Griffon! This was around Area 50.. in Gagetown.

I hope you ensured he was charged.

I second that.....

[Loachman]

If I ever catch some stupid little ****** doing that, a charge will be the least of his worries, and whatever happens to me as a result will be more than worth it.

[Loachman]

And I am a very kind, gentle, and forgiving chap as well.

[TN]

This person was dealt with correctly. I personanlly don't think it was his intentions to do such a thing. He was instruted to fire it off at 2000hrs and he did. Just by luck, there was a Griffon flying around. Didn't hit it, thank god.

[Loachman]

You did say "fire a paraflare like it was a RPG at a Griffon", implying intent, did you not...?

[CountDC]

that is the way it sounded.

Wording - have to be careful how you say it.

[DirtyDog]

I very recently (within a year) had a arty sim thrown into a seacan that was part of a village we were attacking.  It made for some exciting training to say the least.  I remember hearing it whistle and thinking "I might want to cover my ears now".  When it went off I thought the seacan roof and walls were going to blow off....  Quite the concussion.  Good times.

Would I as an instructor have thrown one in?  Probably not... the risk is kinda high.  However, I'm not one to get offended when such things are practiced on me.  It certainly adds an element of realism and danger.

[ammocat]

Regardless of how you feel about this realism and danger, this is a prime example of pyrotechnics being misused. Inside a sea container is clearly a violation of training safety "Ground-burst simulators shall NOT be thrown within 15 m of personnel, and 100 m of material, equipment and vehicles." and "Do NOT use the ground-burst simulator in confined spaces such as buildings, vehicles, trenches or weapon pits because these confined areas dangerously increase the effect of the explosion."

Would you feel the same way about the realism if the whistle malfunctioned and you didn't realize that it was in the sea container and you were injured. Or what  if a lesser experienced soldier was present and didn't have the common sense or knowledge to seek cover. The permanent damage that can be done to ears, eyes, and the burns that can be received do not make this an acceptable practice. Having a soldier injured by any means in unacceptable, but by mishandling of ammunition makes it even worse and in the long run can cause the rest of the unit more strain when they have to take up the slack of the missing member. This is not realism, this is a violation of drill and training, and it is inexcusable.

[CountDC]

willl said ammo. 

Then there is the resources used for both the criminal investigation and the BOI/SI that will happen.  See enough of the "stupid" category of those crossing my desk that cause a stiff neck from shaking the head so much.

[zipperhead_cop]

Would I as an instructor have thrown one in?  Probably not... the risk is kinda high.  However, I'm not one to get offended when such things are practiced on me.  It certainly adds an element of realism and danger.

Ya, safety is for loozers!  Man up, you sissies!

You are going to be the ultimate butts NCO on the mortar range!  Pro Patria!! 

[DirtyDog]

Like I said, I wouldn't do it.  I'm sure it was a calculated risk and not as overly reckless as one might think.  It was at the other end seperated by a couple of rooms.

Anyway.... no harm.... no foul.....

[Loachman]

I'm sure it was a calculated risk and not as overly reckless as one might think.

I doubt that. Our position in a woodline in Germany was attacked by a JLC which was exercising in the same area one night. Three arty sims detonated beneath our fuel bowser. I doubt that any of those twits calculated much at all.

Anyway.... no harm.... no foul.....

There wasn't in the case described above, either, but there was plenty of potential for very spectacular, embarrassing, expensive, and deadly harm and foul.

Stupidity is no excuse for putting people's lives and well-being in jeopardy.