Topic: LCIS - something wrong here?

[Major_Malfunction]

I was going to put this in the "army" area, but since recriters are very hot for this job.. I thought I'd post it here.

I haven't seen anyhting on the forum about this topic so, hopefully the padlocks and the fingershaking will be kept to a minimum...    j/k

As I've stated in one of my first posts, due to the time of year, there are VERY limited NCM positions available until April when the money injection comes through. While speaking with recruiters last week during my interview, they made me aware of my options and what spots were still available etc... etc...  However, although most trades were down to 2 or 3 spots, LCIS had 180 spots left as of Jan 19th.

WOW!  180!!!!

What is wrong with this job? Looking at the recruitment videos and litterature, it seems just as interesting as any other.

Any ex-LCIS' out there who can shed some light on this?

[CFR FCS]

I am NOT an LCIS tech however I know a little about recruiting. The LCIS occupation has a very long training cycle to it. BMQ, SQ Performance Oriented Electronics Training (POET) 32 weeks plus Basic LCIS training 30 weeks.  It would seem to me that over more than 1 year plus you might lose a few students. Last year they enrolled to start BMQ about 80 and the year before less than that. I am unsure what numbers  actually came out the end of the pipeline. Recruiting met the requested numbers but this year they wanted 275. We are trying hard to reach that goal but the Grade 10 advanced math requirement is causing challenges. Most students take general math.
Nothing wrong with the trade as far as I know, once you get through the training system. Good postings, good tour potential and advancement.     

[MasterInstructor]

I am We are trying hard to reach that goal but the Grade 10 advanced math requirement is causing challenges. Most students take general math.   

Would Principles of Math 12 override Advanced Math 10?

I am asking for a buddy of mine, I applied to Navy myself...

[Major_Malfunction]

I see. There seems to be so much going on with recruiting that normal folk like me just don't understand. Thank god for forums like this.

I think the scariest part of the recruiting process is wondering if you'll like your chosen trade once you get in. there's only so much a video can tell you. Recruiters do a damn good job but it's hard to know if they just want a space filled or if they really think that a certain trade is the one that best suits you.

I'll use myself for this example:   Early 30's, College Diploma - Operations management, Job supervising 60+ people, looking to try something new and maybe work in a lifestyle that is exciting and going to take me places.

"You want NAV COMM or SONAR Op"

Now, is that because my recruiter was a PO or does that sound right?

Interview with an Army Captain - "Why did you choose the Navy? You're in amazing shape and have an education. What about LCIS?"

LOL

I dunno... it confuses me more than anything.

[PuckChaser]

Recruiting seems to be pushing the Navy a lot, but that's mostly due to their poor manning levels. LCIS and SigOp are low as well. Mostly LCIS guys leave and get civvie jobs afterwards, using the military's training to help them out. Higher than average turnover, and a long training schedule doesn't help either.

[Major_Malfunction]

Would Principles of Math 12 override Advanced Math 10?

I am asking for a buddy of mine, I applied to Navy myself...

As far as I can remember, grade 10 math whether it was general or advanced was basically the same with the exception of how fast your learned it and how difficult the level of testing was.

Grade 12 general math would still outshine grade 10 advanced math because you are learning more difficult problems  and calculating different equations all together. I was a math tutor in school and the kids in grade 10 general were just as smart as the ones in advanced. Sure, they went through the book at a slower rate, but it doesn't mean they were dumb.

Wait till college or uni and you have to do stats...  oi!

[MasterInstructor]

As far as I can remember, grade 10 math whether it was general or advanced was basically the same with the exception of how fast your learned it and how difficult the level of testing was.

Grade 12 general math would still outshine grade 10 advanced math because you are learning more difficult problems  and calculating different equations all together. I was a math tutor in school and the kids in grade 10 general were just as smart as the ones in advanced. Sure, they went through the book at a slower rate, but it doesn't mean they were dumb.

Wait till college or uni and you have to do stats...  oi!

That is true for sure, but how CF sees it might be different... I think it should override myself but you never know...

PS: I did do college for Mech Eng Tech and I hated it

[Major_Malfunction]

Personally, I think  it's whether or not you are teachable.. earning your High school diploma or GED or whatever says you have the ability to learn and retain.

My roommate is applying for MARS and she failed the math test... This woman has a university degree in psychology and is admittedly a very poor mathematician, but, she's still going through to the next phase of her recruitment.

I just don't think your buddy should worry too much about it. If an officer candidate can't even add or subtact fractions well, then grade 12 math should be fine.

Then again... I don't make the rules 

[Occam]

Advanced level math is going to prepare you for complex numbers (real and imaginary), trigonometry and calculus.  It's hard to truly grasp RMS voltage unless you have a grasp of "area under the curve", which is integral calculus.

I don't think general level math, even at the gr 12 level, is going to give you the foundations for that.

[Tango18A]

Don't get too wrapped up in the math.  Most of the formulas that we learn through out POET don't get used outside of that course. Problem solving is the biggest issue as a tech. In my shop the biggest thing i want my techs to understand is how to solve a problem quickly, and be able to explain to the crews in plain english what happened, and possible fixes performed by the user. Most of the TCCCS faults are generally user solvable.

[Ex-Dragoon]

Major_ Malfunction you are neither qualified nor knowledgeable on how or why the CF hires in the manner it does. Your not even in and yet you have contiously paseed out information as if it was fact. Cease straying out of you lanes. The next time you will be introduced to the warning system.

Milnet.Ca Staff

[Occam]

Don't get too wrapped up in the math.  Most of the formulas that we learn through out POET don't get used outside of that course.

Unfortunately, those formulae are required to actually pass the POET course.  No arguments here that most of the time after POET, you won't be using much of the academics that are taught, but one has to have been trained on them to be able to use them if required. 

[travodne20]

i really do not think that grade 12 general math would out shine grade 10 advanced...in ontario the grade ten advanced math course begins to touch on functions...quadriatics and various trig and geometry applications...grade 12 general barely even comes close to anything like...grade 10 advance prepares students to move into advanced classes like finite, calculus, and data managment(into to stats).

[Tango18A]

Occam,

I did quite well on POET just memorizing the appropriate graphs when it came to certain areas. Yes you are right about the base knowledge that enables students to learn their craft, ie Ohms law, Power formula. But as for the resistor code, its very hard to read once the "smoke" has been let out of the device. I only had Alberta Math 20 at that point. Hard core calculus is not a pre req. But some understanding of math, and how to manipulate formula is. The hardest part of POET would be keeping your eyes open, as the brain fizzles quite quickly at the onslaught of information that occur es every day. And that was back in the 90's when the course was 180+ days long. Now CTC wants to go under 100 trg days to gain the same info.

[Occam]

Under 100 days? ? ?

That's just crazy.  You can't crank out a decent tech with only 100 days training.  What are they thinking??

[Tango18A]

Its all about that version of crack cocaine that all organizations are addicted to, MONEY. They have allready cancelled a couple of 6A's at CFSCE. PT is part of all courses now, but no extra time has been built in to the time table. So the students proceed down to the Gym for 0600, so they can be back to class for 0800. And brain dead by 1400. So where have we got? No where at all.

[tsokman]

Is that the correct number of spots for LCIS Tech 180....how many spots have been filled so far this year...

[Occam]

Is that the correct number of spots for LCIS Tech 180....how many spots have been filled so far this year...

Who knows?  Does it matter?

[Major_Malfunction]

Is that the correct number of spots for LCIS Tech 180....how many spots have been filled so far this year...

That's just what the Captain told me during my interview. As of Jan 19th/10 there were 180 spots left in a trade he thought was one of the best out there when it comes to training and getting a civilian job later.

I can't tell you if that's good or bad cuz I don't know squat... 180 just seems high to me. I'm actually considering it now that I've looked it over. All that tech training AND you get to be a soldier... I'm guessing someone who can operate and repair anything that has to do with communication out in the field would be worth his weight in gold... but I'll let the experienced guys handle that topic 

[ayo23]

I'm currently in the process for applying to LCIS (1st choice) or SigOps (2nd)...
I had no idea that there's still 180 spots left. 

[tsokman]

It does seem to have that ideal mix of technician-soldier and the career path seems quite flexible and ,overall, excellent.  I know Im pretty psyched about it. I've done alot of research on it so I would say go for it, it seems tops.

Re Occam: it matters because I want one of those spots.

[Occam]

Re Occam: it matters because I want one of those spots.

As CFR_FCS said so eloquently here, the information that Major Malfunction passed on is now a week old.  There could be NO spots left at this particular moment in time.  Knowing how many spots there are will not move you any further ahead in the process, as you have no idea where you stand in the grand scheme of things.  You're driving yourself (and others) crazy trying to find out information that just isn't available.

My advice to you is to pour yourself a coffee, and hurry up and wait.  There is nothing you can do that is going to speed up your enrolment, and information you do find out really is useless to you.

[tsokman]

OK...thats what Im worried about that the spots will fill up as I had to provide some supplementary med docs and my process took a bit longer. Plus originally I was suppose to enter as NCM-SEP applicant but changed my mind which chewed up another two months.  But my military counsellor said he was pretty sure Id be selected.  So far its been about 6 months since I handed in my application and 1 month since I completed all the application criterion.

[Occam]

OK...thats what Im worried about that the spots will fill up as I had to provide some supplementary med docs and my process took a bit longer. But my military counsellor said he was pretty sure Id be selected.

If the spots fill up, the spots fill up - there's nothing you can do about it, nor will knowing whether they're filled or not make a difference in how fast your med docs get processed.  The process will take as long as it takes.

[tsokman]

Yes I understand that. Thanks. I dont think it bothers me if it takes a bit longer as I dont really want to do BMQ in the summer.

[PMedMoe]

I dont really want to do BMQ in the summer.

I wouldn't be too picky if I were you.   

[tsokman]

Well obviously if the offered me a summer BMQ I would take it but Id prefer mid-spring or early fall.

[NFLD Sapper]

You don't get to pick and choose what time of year you do your BMQ.

MILNET.CA MENTOR

[CDN Aviator]

I would take it but Id prefer mid-spring or early fall.

The weather matches you eye colour ?

[tsokman]

Yes it does actually....Ive never been to Montreal but I know in Toronto it can really boil and be humid.

[Retired FDO]

In the Recruiting Centre we will always try to find the best fit for you and the CF. If you qualify for and want Infantry but don't want to wait until there is an opening then we will suggest a trade we have open. If you choose not to go that way then you'll wait. However, it IS our job to make sure you have ALL the information and can make a well informed decision on your occupation choice.

[PuckChaser]

Yes it does actually....Ive never been to Montreal but I know in Toronto it can really boil and be humid.

You know another place that gets pretty hot? Afghanistan. You might end up there during the summer, where it makes Toronto's summer look like the Arctic. I hear Haiti and most African countries are pretty hot, too.

[Tango18A]

So can most duty centers if you cause enough problems. Just remember as a recruit, you aren't entitled to anything posting / employment wise once you graduate your QL3. The ARMY will send you where you are needed, not accommodate your every wish. In my opinion every QL3 LCIS Tech should go to 1 of 3 Places, 1,2 or 5 CMBG. Sending any QL3 off to a Comm Sqn/Base posting is a total waste. You don't gain very much knowledge there to enable a deployment to the 'Gan. LCIS is an ARMY based trade, so get used to the color GREEN.

[tsokman]

I never said I wouldnt do BMQ in the summer just I would prefer it in the spring or fall .

[Swingline1984]

I never said I wouldnt do BMQ in the summer just I would prefer it in the spring or fall .

No problem sir.  We'll schedule it between your 9am pedicure and brunch.  Would you like extra towels?

[Moody]

No problem sir.  We'll schedule it between your 9am pedicure and brunch.  Would you like extra towels?

I never said I wouldnt do BMQ in the summer just I would prefer it in the spring or fall .

How do you feel about the cold or rain while you crank out push ups in a puddle at 04:30?

[Tango18A]

If you want to be picky about when your training takes place then maybe your local Maytag dealership is a better place. Repairs don't always take place between 0800 and 1600. If you don't want that kind of work schedule then i suggest that you don the Blue suit and wait to fix your next Maytag.

[MasterInstructor]

I am not sure why everybody is picking on tsokman. Everybody has preferences. I would like to do my BMQ in spring too. I applied for the Navy, I would like to be posted to Esquimalt not Halifax. I would like to be NES Op more than NCI Op.

This does not mean I will ask for a VR if I get posted to Halifax. It does not mean I will reject NCI Op offer. It does not mean I wont do BMQ in Winter...

I am pretty sure everyone is allowed to have their own preferences....

What would you say if I asked, " If you could do your BMQ whenever you want, when would you want do it? " I am sure people will have different answers for different reasons...

[Retired FDO]

Cool thing about being Canadian and even in the military you always have a choice. You can CHOOSE to do your training when they tell you OR not at all. You can CHOOSE to take the occupation offered OR not at all. You can even CHOOSE to do as your ordered once your in OR not. Just remember every choice has an outcome that you may or may not like. Like unemployed/employed, lose up to 1/2 your pay and spend 2 years less a day in CFDB/free to have a beer after work.

Always a choice ans always your and your alone to make!

PS: as of right now: 1315 on 29 Jan 2010 there are 178 LCIS positions open. However I don't know how many applications there are for the rest.

[tsokman]

I never said I would refuse any period or type of training necessary for LCIS Tech...just maybe the spring or fall is more ideal......I hope I get one of those spots!!

[Ex-Dragoon]

I never said I would refuse any period or type of training necessary for LCIS Tech...just maybe the spring or fall is more ideal......I hope I get one of those spots!!

If I were you I would quit now while you were ahead before the people you are asking some out to lunch questions of all the time become irate with you and stop answering you and those others who will be caught in the backlash.

Milnet.Ca Staff

[tsokman]

I never asked if I had a choice when to do my BMQ, just what my preferences were.  I dont see anywhere in the QO and R that youre not allowed to have preferences...Originally, I never said I wanted to choose my BMQ but that because my application was running long I may not be loaded until the Fall if Im enrolled.  And I never quit anything in my life there bud...

[Ex-Dragoon]

Read what I said...quit asking out to lunch questions, do some research on your own, show some initative you will be doin yourself and everyone else here a favour. Continually being a pest will get you out of here faster then you can finish a double double.

Milnet.Ca Staff

[CDN Aviator]

I dont see anywhere in the QO and R that youre not allowed to have preferences...

It is "QR&O" .........if you want to look like you know something, it helps to get it right. If you ever make it in, you will find out that having preferences means jack crap.

And I never quit anything in my life there bud...

If you are going to be like that all th time now, stop asking questions.

[tsokman]

ok!

[Swingline1984]

ok!

You will have to understand a few things if you plan to integrate well into the CF community.  One, our humour tends to be deeply rooted in sarcasm and irony.  Two, we have little patience for the same questions over and over, especially if they have already been answered ad nauseum; you will learn quickly that your supervisors will not like repeating themselves.  This is a great site with lots of resources but it is best to stick with what you know vice what you think (thus the ubiquitous "stay within your lane" reference) and when looking for answers, formulate well thought out questions rather than smearing the boards with a shotgun blast of inarticulate nonsense.  I think I speak for everyone on this board when I say we wish you a happy and long career, but please try to understand where we are coming from as it will only aid you in this endeavour.  Take this as you will from a guy with a post count of 42.   

Cheers,

[CommTech13]

Hey all, this is my first post on these forums after reading quite a lot of them.

I wish to apply at the Toronto CFRC later this month, with one choice being an LCIS tech NCM, and i have a strong background in math as seems a requirement for the position, especially from reading this thread. My problem is i lack any background in physics, does this mean i will not be able to be enrolled as an LCIS tech, or does it just make me less favorable compared to say somebody who has a background in both math and physics.

[Daywalker]

Well I have finally applied and passed my CFAT. The recruiter said I did very well. I am applying for LCIS/ATIS which is a good fit as I was an Electronics Technician for 14 years. I am also a major computer/audio/video nut! I like the idea of doing something that has many different things to do, not just one specialised area! This was part of the reason why I lost my job... not enough work for the specific stuff I worked on...

I am getting a PLAR done for my College diploma (2 years Electronics Technician) and my work experience. Hopefully that won't take too long...   

[Cleric515]

well i'll let you know that my PLAR took around 3.5 months, it was looked over from october 28th/09 - feb 9th/10 and my diploma is pretty much the same as yours, i have a dual diploma in electrical and electronic technology so yeah, just sit tight and be patient, lol, all i can really say

[CommTech13]

For what it's worth i was in the recruiting center today talking about what jobs would best suit me, and the recruiter almost jumped out of his seat when he heard i had grade 12 advanced functions, he basically threw the LCIS position at me and sold me on a quick process and a job offer in a short amount of time. Short story is they are most definitely still looking for LCIS techs. Just my

[Daywalker]

I was an Electronics Tech for 14 years. I applied in March to the CF for LCIS and ATIS. I got an offer for LCIS 2 months later, having no problems or hold-ups. I asked them to do my PLAR after I got an offer as getting in sooner was more important since I am out of a job right now, and BMQs were filled up to October (When my EI runs out). The PLAR can sometimes hold you up for months... My offer was for July 24th instead of October or November because someone else quit, opening up an earlier spot.

I got another call today telling me my PLAR was done (it took 3 weeks, can you believe it?), and that they want me to bypass the POET training. Great stuff, though I might have to brush up on some of the "theory" parts of POET, as its been 15 years since I learned some of that stuff!

[Tango18A]

Congrats. POET is a major source of frustration, as you might spend time waiting for a course to form. Now it just means waiting for a QL3 loading. Just hang tight.