Topic: Modular Fighting Rigs: CF seeking 3 combos, 1600-1800 each

[Matt_Fisher]

About a third of my platoon has received the CF OTW shirt; we've heard rumours they were done by Drop Zone.  Most guys seem to like them but the arm pockets have a tendency to come unstitched quiet quickly.  And the CADPAT is a wierd yellow-ish hue and looks somewhat like mustard.

From what I've been told by various sources, the CF OTW shirt was designed primarily by Performance Textiles out of North Vancouver, BC who had an R&D contract with DND for clothing items.  The initial trial shirts were produced by ANK Apparel out of Vancouver.

The 'yellow-ish hue' CADPAT material is likely a Kermel-Viscose blend fire retardant fabric.  Aramid fibres such as Kermel don't respond to dyeing procedures very well, and as such, trying to achieve perfect colour matches can be quite complicated and difficult.
From what I understand, the torso material on the initial trial shirts was a FR knit fabric done by Polartec, however it was changed to a cotton/nylon blended 'no-melt/no-drip' knit fabric by the textile folks at DSSPM because they had concerns about the Polartec material pilling, and that the cost of the Polartec fabric was significantly higher than the cotton/nylon.
The overall design of the shirt was loosely based on the British UBACS shirt, which DLR used as its initial point of reference.

[CanadianTire]

Definitely not yours then.  The sleeve pockets are indeed velcro - basically identical to the ones on the standard-issue CF tunic.   I believe there is a label, but I don't have an example of the shirt handy right now.

Most guys seem to be happy with them other than the colour and the sleeve pockets falling apart.  In terms of comfort most guys seem to think they're on par with the CP and ICE shirts.

I do not beleive those shirts are ours, we did the T & E samples over the last two years for another CF vendor. We were led to believe the design was approved.

We were then told CF changed the design that was submitted by the vendor we worked for.

They eliminated our zip sleeve pocket in favor of a flapped Velcro­ pocket. They also went with a set sleeve as opposed to raglan sleeve.

My understanding is that the only thing kept from the design we submitted was the collar. I must confirm I have not seen the approved shirt, but based on the bid documents, the information I have is correct.

To be sure ...if it has raglan sleeves, if the sleeve pocket is zipped, the "pen" pocket is near the left cuff, and there is no label in it ...its ours.

Kind Regards
Brian Kroon

[Matt_Fisher]

An update to this.  Looks like there's been another procurement hurdle, as the third attempt at this has just been put onto the MERX...again.
https://www.merx.com/English/SUPPLIER_Menu.Asp?WCE=Show&TAB=1&PORTAL=MERX&State=7&id=PW-%24%24PR-707-50052&src=osr&FED_ONLY=0&ACTION=&rowcount=&lastpage=&hcode=jMWX4mmWg1Sw6gW8qiW7Ug%3d%3d

The tender has been altered significantly in scope:
-looks like all of SORD Australia's and CTOMS kit is not included with this tender.
-2 piece MAV, X Harness, and associated pouches along with some HSGI (Universal Mag Pouches, Double Universal Mag Pouches, and Nalgene Pouches) are all that is being spec'd now.
-New requested delivery date is July 2nd, 2010, so for TF 1-10, it looks like you guys will be winding down your tour, with TF 3-10 well into pre-deployment training before any of this stuff hits the system.

[milnews.ca]

Good catch, Matt - yet again through the sausage machine....

The bid package annex outlining the different combos (~25 pgs) is attached for whoever's interested.

[milnews.ca]

Just hunting for something else, when the winners popped up here:

(....)
Amount     $1,758,539.35 CAD

(....)

Supplier Information:
Fortitude East PTY Ltd
Unit 10, 25-27 Hocking Street
Coburg North, Victoria
3058
Australia

(....)

and here:

(....)

Amount     $72,711.98 CAD

(....)

Supplier Information:
Canadian Tactical and Operational Medical Solutions Inc.
2919 Ellwood Dr.
Edmonton
Alberta
T6X0B1
Canada

(....)

[Crapgame]

So Canadian Forces are going to a USMC gear format, one set of coyote brown kit for wear with TW or AR CadPat?

I find it amazing DND would contract with a firm halfway around the world instead of finding a Canada-based firm to produce your kit.

I just hope the co in Australia doesn't sub it out to someplace in Singapore or Hong Kong, the airsoft junk capital of the world.

[Matt_Fisher]

So Canadian Forces are going to a USMC gear format, one set of coyote brown kit for wear with TW or AR CadPat?

Negative.  The official party line from DND is that this equipment is being procured for a load carriage study which will be taken place in the Afghanistan theatre of operations, whereby they wanted to purchase commercial off the shelf stuff for expedited delivery (rather than have to wait for the fabric mills that produce CADPAT to ramp up production), and Coyote Brown and Khaki were deemed to be suitable for operational use in lieu of CADPAT - AR (Arid Regions).  In my opinion it's essentially a UOR for an interim load carriage system to replace the tac-vest for work up training and operations in Afghanistan, but dressed up in such a way that lets the bean counters feel ok about spending the money on it.

In a few years time when ISSP starts to come on line and the foundations of what this study validated are applied to the load carriage system which ISSP will be based on, it will likely be produced in both CADPAT TW and CADPAT AR, provided that a different camouflage pattern hasn't been developed to replace the current CADPAT ones.

In the meantime, again, the official party line is that the CF Tac-Vest is to be used for training and operations other than Afghanistan.

[milnews.ca]

This out Monday, via MERX:

Supplier Information:
Dave's Surplus Ltd.
742 12th St.
New Westminster
British Columbia
V3M4W5
Canada

(....)

Amount     $565,669.41 CAD ....

[greazyjungle]

As I read the lengthy .pdf document posted above, it seemed Tactical Tailor had the edge since in the document it listed TT items as already meeting the criteria...  Then it looks like the contract went to SORD in Australia...?  Did I read that right?  Could the contract to Dave's Surplus (DSTactical) be for TT rigs...?

[greazyjungle]

Anyone know if this rolled out and the modular rigs are being issued yet?

[Tango18A]

Not to my knowledge.

[Illegio]

Anyone has a DWAN address, PM me and I'll email you an update, if it hasn't already trickled down yet. Don't know if it's open-source yet. I was pretty frosted when I opened my inbox, as this particular solution was banned, in no uncertain terms, for C-Coy on TF 1-08 *after* I had already paid out of pocket for it, having been told it was good to go. Goes to show that everything that's old is new again...

[Wolf117]

So what is the latest that anyone has heard in reference to this project?  I REALLY hope we get something sooner rather than later.

As long as it's built tough, modular and covers a large area of the body.

I'm not a fan of just a chest rig because it doesn't generally allow you to fit kit to your back.  I figure as long as whatever we get has MOLLE on the front, back and sides, then the user can tailor it to what he needs.

[alexgold]

A large part of the BG for TF 3-10 got issued 1 of the 3 combos for tour.  We have to give it back at the end of the tour so DLR can run tests on them.  It comes with 3 possible fronts and 2 possible backs for different combinations.  It is completely MOLLE and comes with 27 pouches for the basic soldier.  Extra pouches are issued to commanders, machine gunners, etc...  So far everyone loves them.  They are coyote brown.  The maker is an australian company called SORD.

They told us that the next roto after us (whatever kind of roto it will be) will be getting the 2nd of the 3 combos for trials.

[Illegio]

Wonder what the third MFR op trial is going to look like, then... I've already seen 3VP guys on TF 1-11 with the current MFR, and even the guys in our Bn going on the NEO tasking are getting it as well.

In any case, doesn't look like we will see the end result of the MFR trial and development for a few years at least.

[Matt_Fisher]

I'm curious as to how they're going to score the characteristics of each one of the MFRs against each other, seeing as how the trial participants will only be getting to use one particular version, rather than get a chance to use all 3 systems in training and operations.

All MFRs and associated pouches will likely score leagues above the current issue Tac-Vest, but the whole purpose of this trial is to identify a set of characteristics (other than being modular) which will be specified for the eventual (read 5-10 year timeframe) replacement of the tac-vest.  i.e.  Will it be a 1-piece chest rig, or a 2 piece MAV looking thing, or will it have different front setups and different back setups?  How do you decide what style of rig you're going to go with, or pouch design when they're all scoring 3-4/5 on a survey sheet because the only thing the user has to compare against is the Tac-Vest.

This would sort of be like holding an ice cream judging contest wherby you get 3 people to participate who've only ever had vanilla ice cream before.  You sit them down individually in a room and let each one of them try only one type of ice cream:  Rocky Road, Neopolitan, or Chocolate Chip Cookie Dough.  Then you take their test scores and try to decide which ice cream is the best.  Kind of hard to do without having let the testers try each one of the flavours, right?

As far as the kit being returned at the end of the trial, I have a feeling that a significant amount of what is issued to the troops will be accounted for as 'combat losses' when it comes time to turn the stuff in.   

[R031button]

Today B Coy 1 VP was issued TT MAV "rifleman kits". Looks like exactly what was previously outlined in the MFR RD from Feburary, with the additon of CTOMS slim line med pouches.

[Grimaldus]

Today B Coy 1 VP was issued TT MAV "rifleman kits". Looks like exactly what was previously outlined in the MFR RD from Feburary, with the additon of CTOMS slim line med pouches.

Fire off some pics?

[R031button]

sorry, was waiting until I was allowed to play with it before I posted pictures



The two Tac Tailor shingles are hidden behind an ATS pouch I use for comms stuff (not issued, I put it and was too tired of molle to take it off for the picture), but you can pretty much see it all on there. CTOMS Slimline is fantastic, probably a much better use of the Snap Dragon buckle then for anything you're going to have to do up in a hurry.




Frankly I'm very impressed the army actually looked into different pouches from different manufacturers rather then a mass buy from one company.

[Matt_Fisher]

Today B Coy 1 VP was issued TT MAV "rifleman kits". Looks like exactly what was previously outlined in the MFR RD from Feburary, with the additon of CTOMS slim line med pouches.

How much leeway are you guys given to customize your rig setups, or is there going to be a 'battalion/company standard' layout for specific weapons types?

If you or any of the other guys that were issued these are interested in a bib/admin pouch that'll work with the 2 piece MAV, let me know and I'll get you some information on something I'm working on.

Cheers,

Matt

[R031button]

I won't comment on standardization for fear of jinxing it.