Topic: IMPROVED PROCEDURES TO RETURN TO REGULAR FORCE SERVICE

[CountDC]

Just looked through a lot of prior posts and did not really find one to add this to so started new thread. Search did not find this at the time.

CANFORGEN 072/09 CDS 012/09 221848Z APR 09
- CF RETENTION STRATEGY - IMPROVED PROCEDURES TO RETURN TO REGULAR FORCE SERVICE
UNCLASSIFIED


REFS: A. ROD FROM AFC 21 JAN 09
B. QR AND O CHAP 6, ENROLMENT AND RE-ENGAGEMENT
C. DAOD 5002-1, ENROLMENT - REGULAR FORCE
D. CBI 204.015, PAY INCREMENTS
BILINGUAL MESSAGE/MESSAGE BILINGUE



AS MANY OF YOU ARE AWARE, THE RE-ENROLMENT PROCESS FOR FORMER REGULAR MEMBERS WAS INEFFICIENT. IN AN ATTEMPT TO REBUILD AND STRENGTHEN OUR FORCES, I AM PLEASED TO ANNOUNCE THAT THE PROCESS TO RE-ENROL HAS NOW BEEN SIGNIFICANTLY STREAMLINED


EFFECTIVE 01 APR 09, AND IAW REF A, THE MEMBER PERSONNEL RECORD RESUME (MPRR) WILL BE THE SOURCE DOCUMENT FOR PREVIOUS REGULAR FORCE MEMBERS WHO MEET ALL OF THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS:


PREVIOUS CF REGULAR FORCE EXPERIENCE AND CURRENTLY A CIVILIAN OR A MEMBER OF A RESERVE FORCE SUB-COMPONENT OTHER THAN THE PRIMARY RESERVE. NOTE THAT CURRENT PRIMARY RESERVE MEMBERS WILL CONTINUE TO USE THE EXISTING COMPONENT TRANSFER PROCESS


RELEASED FROM THE REGULAR FORCE WITHIN THE PAST 5 YEARS


OCCUPATION QUALIFIED


RELEASED FROM THE REGULAR FORCE UNDER ITEMS 4, 5B OR 5C


MEETS ALL OTHER QUALIFICATIONS, CONDITIONS AND STANDARDS FOR ENROLMENT OR COMPONENT TRANSFER


DESIRES RE-ENROLMENT TO PREVIOUS OCCUPATION


THE REGULAR FORCE MPRR WILL BE THE MAIN SOURCE USED TO DETERMINE RANK AND QUALIFICATIONS FOR INDIVIDUALS RETURNING TO REGULAR FORCE SERVICE. RANK, TIME IN RANK AND YEARS OF SERVICE ON RELEASE WILL BE CREDITED TO THE INDIVIDUAL APPLYING TO RE-ENROL INTO THE REGULAR FORCE. THIS INFORMATION WILL BE THE BASIS FOR THE D MIL C DETERMINATION OF RE-ENROLMENT OFFER. ERRORS FOUND IN THE MPRR CAN BE CORRECTED THROUGH THE USE OF ORIGINAL DOCUMENTATION


FORMER REGULAR FORCE MEMBERS WILL BE RE-ENROLLED INTO THE REGULAR FORCE AT THE SUBSTANTIVE RANK INDICATED ON THEIR REGULAR FORCE MPRR WITH THEIR QUALIFYING SERVICE USED TO DETERMINE PAY AND SENIORITY LEVELS. TOS WILL BE OFFERED ON THE BASIS OF SERVICE REQUIREMENT AND EXISTING QR AND O PROVISIONS


THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT CHANGE TO CURRENT ENROLMENT PRACTICES WHICH I BELIEVE WILL GO A LONG WAY TOWARDS REINFORCING MY COMMITMENT TO FORMER REGULAR FORCE MEMBERS WHO POSSESS SKILL SETS THAT WE REQUIRE.


SIGNED BY GEN W.J. NATYNCZYK, CDS

[Retired FDO]

This helped a lot in people getting back in as far as the process goes. The problem we have now is it can still take a while for your Med Docs to come in. If you were out for a couple of years your med file is in archives and has to be located. It has taken several weeks in some cases. However, we can do everything else while we are waiting for the med info.

[helpup]

Nice to know and will keep that in mind for those earlier in their careers who leave after initial engagements.  Personally though when I get out it will be no more Regs for me.  Reserves maybe. 

[rossco]

Recruiter’s Advice Required

I have a soldier who will probably be released 5d - Not Advantageously Employable.  In this case he was “wholly or chiefly because of the conditions of military life or other factors beyond his control, develops personal weaknesses or has domestic or other personal problems that seriously impair his usefulness to or impose an excessive administrative burden on the Canadian Forces.” 

In short, he racked himself up to a 'Violation of C&P' for ‘Abuse of Alcohol.’  No laws were broken he just kept showing up hung-over.  He will be completing the 60 day spin dry and I think he will stop drinking.

He is a good soldier with above average conduct and performance save the drinking.  He has asked me the likelihood being accepted of he reapplied to the CF if he is released (assuming he stays sober).  The party line here at regiment in NO I would like to know what someone in the recruiting world thinks?

[Tow Tripod]

Rosco, To bad for him for breaking his CNP conditions.We can't care how great of a soldier he was if he can't control himself with alcohol.NCO's get paid to train troops and they should not be in baby sitting mode because Cpl Supertrooper can't make it to work on time!!

[Haggis]

I have a soldier who will probably be released 5d - Not Advantageously Employable.

  The CANFORGEN specifically does not mention 5D.

In short, he racked him up to a violation of C&P for ‘Abuse of Alcohol.’  No laws were broken he just kept showing up hung-over.  He will be completing the 60 day spin dry and I think he will stop drinking.

In this case he was “wholly or chiefly because of the conditions of military life or other factors beyond his control, develops personal weaknesses or has domestic or other personal problems that seriously impair his usefulness to or impose an excessive administrative burden on the Canadian Forces.” 

He was on C&P and still refused to stop drinking?  How is that a factor "beyond his control"?

He is a good soldier with above average conduct and performance save the drinking.  He has asked me the likelihood being accepted of he reapplied to the CF if he is released (assuming he stays sober).  The party line here at regiment in NO I would like to know what someone in the recruiting world thinks?

If he successfully completes C&P (which looks highly doubtful at this point) and the "spin-dry" and stays sober he may not need to be released.  If not so, the history of people getting back in with a 5D or 5F is pretty dismal.

[Caffeine Addict]

Is there anything that parallels going to the Reserve Force?

I have an ex RegF Snr NCO, out less than two years, and currently on the SHR, who want's to come to the Reserves in the same trade. He's been told he must undergo a Prior Learning Assessment (!) first so they can determine what equivalencies to grant. Seriously. And this is not the first time.

My thought is that if they are simplifying a rtn to the RegF, then surely a simplification of a move to the ResF must be in hand. Or am I just being naive, again?

[CountDC]

Really?? Less than two years out??  We used to do a VFS request if needed and transfer the member.

[dapaterson]

Places to start - Internet links:

DAODs:
Component and Sub-component Transfers:
http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/dao-doa/5000/5002-3-eng.asp

Supplementary Reserve:
http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/dao-doa/5000/5002-4-eng.asp


CF Component Transfer and Component Transfer Career Programs:
http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/pd/pi-ip/doc/03-08-eng.pdf

[Caffeine Addict]

CountDC - I know. The scenario we're facing is certainly a disincentive to the (much desired) mbr.

dap - thanks for the refs; we've reviewed them. I'm hoping someone has had a similar experience in here and found the answer. No doubt it exists, but the tedium to reinvent the wheel ...

The issue was raised because the mbr in question was made aware of the likely req for a PLA down the road via a letter from DMPP - should they desire to return to active service after 5 years on the SHR. So, goes the logical question, if it's apparently not needed until the 5 year mark, why now?

This takes on more significance when we discover that some releasing cells seem to have a habit of throwing mbrs onto the SHR despite their explicit written desire to do direct transfer. Now, a CT in the other direction? Well, that's been seen to happen in 2-3 weeks. *sigh  Recruiting and retention are priorities, right? Sure they are ...

[CountDC]

have to ask - who is saying that a PLA is required?  With less than 2 years out all his qualifications should still be valid.

Not surprised about release cells dumping people onto the supp list.  This has gone on for a long time.  Often it is because the member indicates they want to transfer to the primary reserve but do not have a unit lined up to transfer to.  Release cells will not take (or have) the time to find a unit for the member, it is up to them to find their own unit. of course, the member should actually contact the unit to make sure they will accept them first.

Have to do some more checking on this as I have time.  Really curious on this one.

[Caffeine Addict]

My understanding is the req comes from Area. Then again, it could just be Area making the req known.

In this case, the (other) mbr was specific about the unit; had made contact, had indicated that unit on the paperwork. Bah ... Just attributing it to apathy. Unfortunately, there's precious little recourse on our side, and the mbr is (rightly) just a bit pissed at having to jump through extra hoops to get over here. The PRes already has a rep in some quarters for being a little on the slow side, administratively; even though it's a RegF issue, the PRes gets tainted with it.

If you can come up with anything, that'd be great! I'll keep my eyes peeled.

[dapaterson]

LFCO 24-20 explains the process for PLARs.  DWAN only link: http://lfcms.kingston.mil.ca/Document.aspx?DocID=143000440110665

It states in part:

16a.   Break in service of three years or less. Provided the applicant, if applicable, is currently certified (see para 17), the Land Force Area Headquarters (LFA HQs) have the authority to reinstate valid Army-level and Army occupation qualifications.  Authority for the reinstatement of all other qualifications rests with the appropriate MA;

Ref in whole should be reviewed for context.

If the  individual in question is Cbt Arms or any other trade managed by the Army (such as EME or Sigs), it should be trivial - Area can sign off.  If they are Log branch or some other occupation not under the Army, it becoems significantly more difficult, as other Managing Authorities for training (MAs) must be engaged.

[CountDC]

para 11 is the killer:

11.   Submission of the Request for Equivalency. Annex A shall be included with all equivalency requests.  Documentary proof of the qualification(s) or a detailed and substantiated description of experience must be attached.  A request for equivalency must be submitted when:

a.   a Component Transfer application is requested;
b.   a Occupational Transfer application is requested;
c.   transfer from the Supplemental Reserve; and

[dapaterson]

para 11 is the killer:

11.   Submission of the Request for Equivalency. Annex A shall be included with all equivalency requests.  Documentary proof of the qualification(s) or a detailed and substantiated description of experience must be attached.  A request for equivalency must be submitted when:

a.   a Component Transfer application is requested;
b.   a Occupational Transfer application is requested;
c.   transfer from the Supplemental Reserve; and

An MPRR should be sufficient as proof of qualifications.  The G1 staff at the next level above the unit should be able to assist.

[Caffeine Addict]

Many thanks for all of that, folks. Hopefully I can offer some guidance based on the above and suggest that the wheel, indeed, does not require reinventing.

[Qaziness]

I have a quick question.  Does this Cf Retention Strategy apply to trades that are closed?  I am qualified Infantry and I'm looking to get back in does this new procedure help me in any way?

Thanks

[dapaterson]

It depends.  If you're a Pte/Cpl, probably not.  If you're a Sgt or above, it may.

Even trades that are overborne may accept direct entry into ranks that are stressed.

[Sigger]

Greetings,

I was just advised by my recruiter that he has never seen this CANFORGEN and believes it has been superseded by another. He mentioned I will likely not be taken through this route, but by the regular recruiting process. 

Advice?

[PuckChaser]

How long have you been out? Did you release to the supp res?

[Sigger]

 

How long have you been out? Did you release to the supp res?

3 years. Released Item 5c

No. Why would releasing to supp res affect the CANFORGEN(forgive my ignorance)?

[PuckChaser]

Its far easier to get back in from the Supp Res, your file is held. Dollars to donuts your pers file went to the Archives at NDHQ, and it would be longer to find it than to go through the recruiting process. Best guess is you'll get at least semi-skilled entry (recruit school bypass). If you have your course reports still, provide those and they may PLAR your QL3 as well.

[Sigger]

Perhaps I misunderstood the CANFORGEN, as it seems to me you are in contradiction to it..
 

[PuckChaser]

If the recruiting center is telling you this is superseeded, I'd go with what they're telling you. The army doesn't owe you anything to bring you back, a few years ago you might have had to redo BMQ/SQ.

[Sigger]

When I hear a recruiter incorrectly describing a trade to another, I dont go with much they say..
I am just dumbfounded a recruiter was not familiar with a CANFORGEN directly related to their job..

And no, a few years ago, I would not have needed to redo BMQ(in my situation). I really am not concerned with the length of time it takes to get back in, as regardless of time, I will be a soldier again.

Anyways, Thank you for your advise.

Does anyone(else) know anything about this document? Are there any new amendments or superseding docs?

[agc]

CANFORGEN 002/11 CDS 001/11 101504Z JAN 11

CF RETENTION STRATEGY IMPROVED PROCEDURES TO RETURN TO REGULAR FORCE SERVICE
UNCLASSIFIED

REFS: A. CANFORGEN 072/09 CDS 012/09 221848Z APR 09 CF RETENTION STRATEGY - IMPROVED PROCEDURES TO RETURN TO REGULAR FORCE SERVICE
B. ROD FROM AFC 21 JAN 09
C. QR AND O CHAP 6, ENROLMENT AND RE-ENGAGEMENT
D. DAOD 5002-1, ENROLMENT-REGULAR FORCE
E. CBI 204.015, PAY INCREMENTS

1.      THIS CANFORGEN REPLACES REF A. AS MANY OF YOU ARE AWARE, THE RE-ENROLMENT PROCESS FOR FORMER REGULAR MEMBERS WAS INEFFICIENT. IN AN ATTEMPT TO REBUILD AND STRENGTHEN OUR FORCES, I AM PLEASED TO ANNOUNCE THAT THE PROCESS TO RE-ENROL HAS NOW BEEN SIGNIFICANTLY STREAMLINED

2.      EFFECTIVE 01 APR 09, AND IAW REF A, THE MEMBER PERSONNEL RECORD RESUME (MPRR) WILL BE THE SOURCE DOCUMENT FOR PREVIOUS REGULAR FORCE MEMBERS WHO MEET ALL OF THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS:

3.      PREVIOUS CF REGULAR FORCE EXPERIENCE AND CURRENTLY A CIVILIAN OR A MEMBER OF A RESERVE FORCE SUB-COMPONENT OTHER THAN THE PRIMARY RESERVE. NOTE THAT CURRENT PRIMARY RESERVE MEMBERS WILL CONTINUE TO USE THE EXISTING COMPONENT TRANSFER PROCESS

4.      RELEASED FROM THE REGULAR FORCE WITHIN THE PAST 5 YEARS

5.      OCCUPATION QUALIFIED

6.      RELEASED FROM THE REGULAR FORCE UNDER ITEMS 4, 5B OR 5C

7.      MEETS ALL OTHER QUALIFICATIONS, CONDITIONS AND STANDARDS FOR ENROLMENT OR COMPONENT TRANSFER

8.      DESIRES RE-ENROLMENT TO PREVIOUS OCCUPATION

9.      THE REGULAR FORCE MPRR WILL BE THE MAIN SOURCE USED TO DETERMINE RANK AND QUALIFICATIONS FOR INDIVIDUALS RETURNING TO REGULAR FORCE SERVICE. RANK, TIME IN RANK AND YEARS OF SERVICE ON RELEASE WILL BE CREDITED TO THE INDIVIDUAL APPLYING TO RE-ENROL INTO THE REGULAR FORCE. THIS INFORMATION WILL BE THE BASIS FOR THE D MIL C DETERMINATION OF RE-ENROLMENT OFFER. ERRORS FOUND IN THE MPRR CAN BE CORRECTED THROUGH THE USE OF ORIGINAL DOCUMENTATION

10.     FORMER REGULAR FORCE MEMBERS WILL BE RE-ENROLLED INTO THE REGULAR FORCE SUBJECT TO THE AVAILABILITY OF AN ENROLMENT VACANCY, I.E., A STRATEGIC INTAKE PLAN REQUIREMENT, AT THE SUBSTANTIVE RANK INDICATED ON THEIR REGULAR FORCE MPRR WITH THEIR QUALIFYING SERVICE USED TO DETERMINE PAY AND SENIORITY LEVELS. TOS WILL BE OFFERED ON THE BASIS OF SERVICE REQUIREMENT AND EXISTING QR AND O PROVISIONS.

11.     THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT CHANGE TO CURRENT ENROLMENT PRACTICES WHICH I BELIEVE WILL GO A LONG WAY TOWARDS REINFORCING MY COMMITMENT TO FORMER REGULAR FORCE MEMBERS WHO POSSESS SKILL SETS THAT WE REQUIRE.

12.     SIGNED BY GEN W.J. NATYNCZYK, CDS

[Sigger]

RGR

Changes were made to para 10.
The recruiter advised me this CANFORGEN is utilized in Ottawa, not at the recruiter level. He did however mention a new signing bonus for QL3 trained mbr's looking to get back in for certain trades. I have not been able to locate this document as of yet.

Thank you for the update.

[Sigger]

Update:

I was in for my Medical and interview yesterday.
Due to this CANFORGEN, the interview was about 15 mikes. I was advised by the Capt at the CFRC I will be entering with my same rank and time in. All that is needed is my credit and reference check to return, then when a position is available, the Career Manager will send an offer. Pretty painless, actually.

[CountDC]

great! Nice to see the system improving somewhere.  Hope it doesn't take long for you to get your offer.

[painswessex]

Man this is a good thing to bad i had so many hoops to jump through to get back in now i have to wait for the revised para 10 a vacancy for april hopefully

[AM83]

Ive release under 4C, anyone else here too? and  playing the waiting game.

[M_M]

Ive release under 4C, anyone else here too? and  playing the waiting game.

I released under 4C as well.... but due to being an officer, no waiting required. They know that voluntary trade transfers are not easy to get and are pretty much expecting us to get out and come back in off the street for the trade we tried to VOR to. 

On the release SOU, article 11 there was some mention of "implications" of re-enrolling within 60 days of release. I asked the release section but they had no clue. Anyone have any idea what that might be referring to?

[SeaKingTacco]

I released under 4C as well.... but due to being an officer, no waiting required. They know that voluntary trade transfers are not easy to get and are pretty much expecting us to get out and come back in off the street for the trade we tried to VOR to. 

On the release SOU, article 11 there was some mention of "implications" of re-enrolling within 60 days of release. I asked the release section but they had no clue. Anyone have any idea what that might be referring to?

So...you...are...gaming the system? 

[AmmoTech90]

I released under 4C as well.... but due to being an officer, no waiting required. They know that voluntary trade transfers are not easy to get and are pretty much expecting us to get out and come back in off the street for the trade we tried to VOR to. 

Given para 8

8.      DESIRES RE-ENROLMENT TO PREVIOUS OCCUPATION

How does this CANFORGEN help someone trying to do what you are?

[M_M]

So...you...are...gaming the system? 

I'm really not sure what you mean by "gaming the system" ...

There isn't as great of a system in place for an officer to change trades as there are for people in the ranks. The recruiter for the trade I want actually TOLD me, that this was what I had to do. There was simply no other way. This is actually common practice for officers who want to switch trades but are repeatedly denied.

How does this CANFORGEN help someone trying to do what you are?

In previous years, there were some stories of people having start over from 2Lt again. Recently people are getting their old rank and pay grades back. It's not written explicitly in THIS CANFORGEN.

I was trying to help buddy out in case he didn't know he didn't have to wait and asking a question about the "implications" stated in para 11 of SOU upon release and figured other people getting back in might know. Instead of answers you guys are giving me a hard time. Sheesh...

[SeaKingTacco]

I'm not giving you a hard time.

 I am genuinely trying to figure out what you are trying to do.  You don't have to answer if you think it would give away too much info, but I am curious what stage of your career are you currently in (ie are you still untrained, or have you become occupationally qualified in your current occupation?) and if obligatory service is a player in your scenario.

I am also curious why you have been denied a VOT.  Is your current occupation distressed?  Is your target occupation overborne?  Are you absolutely certain you qualify (medically, academically) for your target occupation?

Finally, I have big question marks about who would give you such advice.  Admittedly, I am working with only posts on the internet, but you are taking a big risk IMHO by releasing- there is no guarantee you will be allowed back in the CF.

[Eye In The Sky]

I released under 4C as well.... but due to being an officer, no waiting required. They know that voluntary trade transfers are not easy to get and are pretty much expecting us to get out and come back in off the street for the trade we tried to VOR to. 

On the release SOU, article 11 there was some mention of "implications" of re-enrolling within 60 days of release. I asked the release section but they had no clue. Anyone have any idea what that might be referring to?

I thought he was out already, and re-entering....and that was because he was not able to change MOCs within the OVOTP??

[Eye In The Sky]

There isn't as great of a system in place for an officer to change trades as there are for people in the ranks.

I'm pretty familiar in the NCM OT processes (MOC Reassignment, COT, VOT) and programs (COTP, AVOTP, LOTP, and recently SVOTP) and requirements

- MOC Reassignment if you are not QL3 qual'd,
- LOTP if Combat Arms with 36 months service and QL4 qual'd (QL3 qual'd if no QL4 in MOC)
- COTP & AVOTP if you have 48 months of service and QL4 qual (QL3 if no QL4 in MOC)

Of course NCMs also have to meet medical/CFAT/etc requirements for the trade you wish to move to.

Aside from the fact there are less #s of OVOTPs because there are less #s of Officers than NCMs, what are the differences that make the OVOTP "not a great system" compared to the NCM side?

[M_M]

I'm pretty familiar in the NCM OT processes (MOC Reassignment, COT, VOT) and programs (COTP, AVOTP, LOTP, and recently SVOTP) and requirements

- MOC Reassignment if you are not QL3 qual'd,
- LOTP if Combat Arms with 36 months service and QL4 qual'd (QL3 qual'd if no QL4 in MOC)
- COTP & AVOTP if you have 48 months of service and QL4 qual (QL3 if no QL4 in MOC)

Of course NCMs also have to meet medical/CFAT/etc requirements for the trade you wish to move to.

Aside from the fact there are less #s of OVOTPs because there are less #s of Officers than NCMs, what are the differences that make the OVOTP "not a great system" compared to the NCM side?

We don't have all of those options you listed above - there is only one type of VOT. Further, career managers often give you a hard time if your trade is yellow or just came out of being yellow.  There are also some training plans that you can try for such as med/dent/chaplain/pharm/physio which is also open to the rest of the CF. Career managers, again can step in and say "no". There have been instances where aircrew members have been told while trying to apply that regardless of whether they get selected: they are not allowed to go. 

I thought he was out already, and re-entering....and that was because he was not able to change MOCs within the OVOTP??

Yes, I am already out. The longer you stay in your current trade, the more cause they have to hold you longer in your trade and refuse your VOR because of your skill sets. I know a guy who spent 10 years in the Navy submitting a VOR EVERY SINGLE YEAR for an open air force trade he wanted and was refused. Eventually he got fed up, released and signed back in under the trade he wanted.

I don't want to turn this into "unrelated-to-post" story time here, if you have more questions, please PM me.   

[CDN Aviator]

Officer or NCM , it does not matter, the CoC does not have the authority to refuse an OT once a member has been selected. If the trade is not red, the career manager does not have the authority to refuse the OT.

[captloadie]

Although true the CoC cannot refuse once the member is accepted, they can go a long way in making sure the member is deemed unsuitable for the plan they are requesting. The CM, even in a green MOSID, has a number he can let OT, and being accepted doesn't necessarily mean you make the cut.

That being said, I personally don't know many officers that VOT after reaching the Capt rank, unless they are going into a specialty trade (MO, Legad, Dental, maybe HCA).

[M_M]

Although true the CoC cannot refuse once the member is accepted, they can go a long way in making sure the member is deemed unsuitable for the plan they are requesting.

That's exactly the problem. They can write horrible references or give you horrible PERs for the next session.

That being said, I personally don't know many officers that VOT after reaching the Capt rank, unless they are going into a specialty trade (MO, Legad, Dental, maybe HCA).

Some people just never liked the trade they go to begin with, or didn't like it after they got on phase training, or don't like the lifestyle of certain trades after they get married/start a family. The guy I was talking about released as an Lt (N) because he hated the Navy so much and got back in as an air force officer. 

Officer or NCM , it does not matter, the CoC does not have the authority to refuse an OT once a member has been selected. If the trade is not red, the career manager does not have the authority to refuse the OT.

Have you met/dealt the aircrew CMs? They rarely approve anything that would involve a trained pilot/nav leaving their trade forever, save for compassionate reasons.

[Eye In The Sky]

Just a small point, but even RED trades are not 'closed'.  0.5% of the TES is the OUTCAP for red, 1% for amber, 2% for green.  For NCM atleast, I've never read up on the Officer side of the house.

I am sure that CM's aren't drawing much attention to that in their Briefings though...

[CountDC]

Just to add my  for what little it is worth this is not the first time I have heard what M_M is mentioning.  I have talked to a couple of officers in the past that mentioned going the same route to change over although they did do it at the 2Lt/Lt stage.

M_M - the navy officer case sounds familiar - was he by chance on the east coast?