Author Topic: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS  (Read 46187 times)

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Offline Kratos

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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #125 on: March 17, 2010, 15:26:19 »
Good advice with the exception of this:
I've often had people say that after the PT test and it irks me to no end.  If I'm "on the lighter side", it means I probably have a smaller body build and therefore, less muscle with which to do the push ups.  Sure, if I'm small, but have arms like an ultimate fighter or a wrestler, then I'll agree the push ups may be easier, but as a general rule lighter=smaller body size=smaller muscles.

True. Given the point I was trying to illustrate, I didn't word that very well at all. Essentially, what I was trying to get across is that I would imagine a relatively active, 150 lb guy is most likely going to have an easier time hitting 20 push ups than a relatively active 215 lb guy, assuming they start from the same point.

Probably far too many other variables for that to ever hold true, though.

Offline MrBlue

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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #126 on: June 26, 2010, 18:04:54 »
To be honest it doesn't surprise me so many people fail the tests, I mean everyone wants to be thin and tiny nowadays...not active.  and even then...most people who do get into fitness, do so in long distance running type stuff...not strength training.

lot of people who get into strength training do so with no guidance!

One thing i'd like to see change is the actual PT done IN the military...seems all they can think of doing is running and ruckmarches...

Offline Kratos

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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #127 on: June 26, 2010, 21:22:13 »
^See massive thread in Physical Training section...

All the guidance anyone really needs can be found online, so I hate that excuse for not doing things properly.

Offline Choop

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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #128 on: July 11, 2010, 02:51:16 »
I must point out that PSP staff are VERY particular with their testing.  I was removed from the shuttle run almost forcibly by PSP in the week 0 with a "Get off the f***ing course right f***ing NOW!!"  I'm still not sure why...   2 days later at the retest I ran a 7...  I have also heard RUMOURS (and I can't stress that enough) a RUMOUR had a Seargent fail the push-up portion.  He apparently couldn't get his arms down to the 90 degree angle required because his biceps were hitting his forearms.  He was physically incapable  because he was too muscular, despite the fact he could pop out 100 push-ups at a time...

Offline Pegcity

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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #129 on: July 11, 2010, 03:07:04 »
Anyone else going to BMOQ or BMQ using the JTF2 entry fitness guidelines as a baseline for their training, i realize it might be overkill but i figure its better to be over prepared than under.
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Offline owa

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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #130 on: July 11, 2010, 03:28:59 »
My two biggest fears concerning basic, should I make it that far: 1) Losing a ton of weight and getting significantly weaker.

There are so many things that can be said about this, but it would get really long.

Baisically nurish your body well (change your diet so that you lose weight in a healthy way -- slowly and gradually) while maintaining some sort of physical fitness regiment and you won't have this problem.  I mean, there will come a point where you will notice a loss of strength but for things like pushups, pullups, situps and running, you will likely notice gains.  This won't necessarily be because of muscle gain, but the loss of fat should help you push more and pull more of your own weight simply because your body is accustomed to a higher weight.  As for running, you'll feel a bit lighter and it'll be easier on your joints and legs.

Won't hold true forever or for everyone, but it isn't something to really worry about.

You'll probably look better too...  Think of when body builders go into a cutting stage.  It probably won't be that dramatic, but it will be a similar principle.

Injury is the biggest concern and I have no advice for that haha.  Just know your limits and stop accordingly.  Push yourself sometimes, but give yourself time to rest.

Offline Kratos

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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #131 on: August 12, 2010, 14:44:36 »
There are so many things that can be said about this, but it would get really long.

Baisically nurish your body well (change your diet so that you lose weight in a healthy way -- slowly and gradually) while maintaining some sort of physical fitness regiment and you won't have this problem.  I mean, there will come a point where you will notice a loss of strength but for things like pushups, pullups, situps and running, you will likely notice gains.  This won't necessarily be because of muscle gain, but the loss of fat should help you push more and pull more of your own weight simply because your body is accustomed to a higher weight.  As for running, you'll feel a bit lighter and it'll be easier on your joints and legs.

Won't hold true forever or for everyone, but it isn't something to really worry about.

You'll probably look better too...  Think of when body builders go into a cutting stage.  It probably won't be that dramatic, but it will be a similar principle.

Injury is the biggest concern and I have no advice for that haha.  Just know your limits and stop accordingly.  Push yourself sometimes, but give yourself time to rest.

Just seeing this now.

I'm no longer going the military route, but losing weight in any manner will affect strength levels. Yes, strength endurance may be increased, but limit strength will suffer greatly. It's not just about muscle size, but also your CNS. Just because you may be used to moving more weight doesn't mean the strength endurance will be there.

If you're losing any weight, you won't just be losing fat.

Looking better was never a concern. Performance was.

Offline owa

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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #132 on: August 12, 2010, 15:00:18 »
Just seeing this now.

I'm no longer going the military route, but losing weight in any manner will affect strength levels. Yes, strength endurance may be increased, but limit strength will suffer greatly. It's not just about muscle size, but also your CNS. Just because you may be used to moving more weight doesn't mean the strength endurance will be there.

If you're losing any weight, you won't just be losing fat.

Looking better was never a concern. Performance was.

That's why I said "Won't hold true forever or for everyone, but it isn't something to really worry about."

But there is a period where you'll notice that you can do more pushups and pullups and where running becomes easier.  You will even out as you lose weight, but I made it clear that it would.  My main point was this:  Generally when you start to shed weight you'll notice that you can do more things like pushups and pullups...  Simply because your muscle mass won't degrade all that quickly and even a 5 pound difference can help a lot in these things.  If you shed weight, eat healthy, and maintain a physical training regime you'll perform better, you'll look better (even if you don't want to look better, it is still a positive outcome of all these things haha), and you'll help avoid injuries.  Not entirely sure what you disagree with. ???

Like I said, you won't get significantly weaker so long as you nurish your body properly.

In the original post I said, "There are so many things that can be said about this, but it would get really long."

I was being quite broad in my explanation because I don't really feel like going in depth, but I'm pretty sure I covered my *** quite well.

It's easier said then done, but the basics are essentially true for everyone.  Eat well, lift your weights, do your cardio, sleep well, and everything will come together.  Fatties (well, not just fatties, but it's fun to say fatties) losing weight will notice declines in some of their strength, but they'll also notice that running, pushups and pullups become easier and they generally do more then they once did.  If you want to be stronger, you manage your routine so that you build muscle, but the fact is, you can bench two or three plates and still be very athletic, so losing fat doesn't mean you have to lose muscle.  You just have to find a balance.

I also wouldn't say strength will suffer greatly.  It will suffer greatly if you cut improperly, but it's possible to maintain some of your powerful lifts, or at the very least only lose a few pounds/reps off each.  My friend's heavy into weight lifting and he's cutting down from 220.  He's down close to 200 now and he hasn't noticed a huge drop.  He just had to balance his diet, cardio and strength training properly.

Offline Kratos

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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #133 on: August 13, 2010, 06:51:10 »
If you shed weight, eat healthy, and maintain a physical training regime you'll perform better, you'll look better

I think there's a lot of subjectivity there, on both counts.

Like I said, you won't get significantly weaker so long as you nurish your body properly.

That also depends, but generally, for soemone who is into training with a focus on strength, I disagree. If someone who is 5'9, 210 enters Basic with a 550 lb deadlift and a 475 lb squat, by the time they have finished, they will most likely be a) lighter and almost certainly b) significantly weaker.

Proper nourishment is also a factor that can vary greatly from person to person.

If you want to be stronger, you manage your routine so that you build muscle, but the fact is, you can bench two or three plates and still be very athletic, so losing fat doesn't mean you have to lose muscle.  You just have to find a balance.

Strength/Getting strong isn't just about "building muscle". CNS adaption also plays a very large role.

In order to lose any weight at all, you have to be eating in a caloric deficit. When you do start losing weight, you aren't just losing fat. Your body is not 100% efficient in that manner. You can minimize the loss of muscle, but if you are losing weight, you are losing muscle mass.

Offline MrBlue

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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #134 on: August 13, 2010, 07:25:00 »
Kratos you're right, basic does not lend itself well to maintaining strength if you have numbers above 300lbs, since you will pretty much do little to strength training during the whole time.

Also you're right I went in at 210, and lost 15lbs, and thats even with trying to stuff myself whenever I could.

you're numbers will drop thats pretty much inevitable.

and to the poster who commented on losing weight properly...kratos wasn't saying that THAT was his goal...he was saying he was worried (aka NOT wanting to) lose weight and get weaker. Like i've said in general I feel the military kind of frowns upon real strength training.

and yes strength training (the real kind...not talking men's health stuff here) involves more then just muscular adaptation, there's CNS adapations, hence why weightlifters and powerlifters keep getting stronger at the same weight.

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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #135 on: August 13, 2010, 07:44:05 »
Don't we have enough threads about weight training/running/nutrition/etc without cluttering up a thread about the PT test at CFLRS? 
Problems cannot be solved by the same level of thinking that created them.  ~Albert Einstein~

Offline owa

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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #136 on: August 13, 2010, 10:29:43 »
Kratos you're right, basic does not lend itself well to maintaining strength if you have numbers above 300lbs, since you will pretty much do little to strength training during the whole time.

Also you're right I went in at 210, and lost 15lbs, and thats even with trying to stuff myself whenever I could.

you're numbers will drop thats pretty much inevitable.

and to the poster who commented on losing weight properly...kratos wasn't saying that THAT was his goal...he was saying he was worried (aka NOT wanting to) lose weight and get weaker. Like i've said in general I feel the military kind of frowns upon real strength training.

and yes strength training (the real kind...not talking men's health stuff here) involves more then just muscular adaptation, there's CNS adapations, hence why weightlifters and powerlifters keep getting stronger at the same weight.

All I said was that it's possible to maintain strength.

I also said there were limits to this, and I didn't suggest you would maintain power lifting strength (I was clear about that).

I did say it's possible to shed weight and maintain strength though.  But I also validated this by saying you need to have the proper nurishment and training regiment.  I never said Basic Training were any of those things -- basic is good for getting you in basic training shape; not necessarily anything else.

Offline Jim Seggie

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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #137 on: August 13, 2010, 11:09:59 »
Don't we have enough threads about weight training/running/nutrition/etc without cluttering up a thread about the PT test at CFLRS?

everyone's an expert Moe.  ;D
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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #138 on: August 13, 2010, 11:34:49 »
everyone's an expert Moe.  ;D

I know, I'm just proposing they be an "expert" in threads already established for those subjects.   ;)
Problems cannot be solved by the same level of thinking that created them.  ~Albert Einstein~

Offline owa

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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #139 on: August 13, 2010, 11:53:55 »
I know, I'm just proposing they be an "expert" in threads already established for those subjects.   ;)

Ah sorry, didn't see your post until after I responded.  I'll leave'er be then haha.

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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #140 on: August 13, 2010, 13:29:10 »
Ah sorry, didn't see your post until after I responded.  I'll leave'er be then haha.

Well, it wasn't aimed just at you.   ;)
Problems cannot be solved by the same level of thinking that created them.  ~Albert Einstein~

Offline Kratos

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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #141 on: August 13, 2010, 15:52:03 »
Well, it wasn't aimed just at you.   ;)

Message received.  ;D

Offline Roughneck_JRico

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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #142 on: September 13, 2010, 15:32:41 »
If anyone needs an exercise program to help them prepare for Basic Training, please send me a message and I will send you a program tailored to preparing yourself for the Fitness Test and PT in general during BMQ.

If anyone asks my credentials I am a certified Personal Trainer Specialist through Can-Fit-Pro and have the same certification through Goodlife Fitness, where I currently work as a personal trainer.

I ship out for my BMQ starting January 10th 2011. Anyone looking for help send me a message. My name's Nick!

Offline Kratos

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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #143 on: September 13, 2010, 16:16:17 »
If anyone needs an exercise program to help them prepare for Basic Training, please send me a message and I will send you a program tailored to preparing yourself for the Fitness Test and PT in general during BMQ.

If anyone asks my credentials I am a certified Personal Trainer Specialist through Can-Fit-Pro and have the same certification through Goodlife Fitness, where I currently work as a personal trainer.

I ship out for my BMQ starting January 10th 2011. Anyone looking for help send me a message. My name's Nick!


Could you post the program?

Offline Chilme

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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #144 on: October 01, 2010, 22:31:27 »
Nick,

Make sure you familiarize yourself with the specific EXPRES protocols (especially push-ups).

Latest version of CF EXPRES Ops Manual: http://canadianmilitaryandefence.blogspot.com/2010/09/canadian-forces-expres-operations.html

It's devastating when recruits train for the test with incorrect form, test out of their comfort zone for the test, and fail.

Offline Vimy_gunner

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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #145 on: October 02, 2010, 02:39:52 »
Something that helped me over a year ago was watching Youtube videos. You'd be amazed at the number of videos on there showing correct form on push-ups and how-to's on everything to do with qualifying.

Everyone is essentially an expert if they're fit, but truth is there's a gazillion different ways to get fit. Just whichever one works the best for you.

Having great nutrition and proper protein and supplements to prevent loss of muscle mass from training should be your top priority - especially for those who need to lose the fat and gain muscle. It's difficult to do, but you really can lose the fat and maintain or improve muscle mass at the same time. Just have to have the necessary protein with minimal fats (and only the good fats) in your system.  I know this is about the PT test, but a lot of people don't realize that the reason why they're small despite even working out like crazy could be that their body is already absorbing all the protein. If there's no protein left - your body takes it from your muscles ... thus, you remain a stick.    (First hand life experience)  I'm 6'1 and 195 lbs now, prior to eating smart and using protein supplements (7 years ago) I was 145 lb stick-man, lol.
Believe it or not I worked out more then than I do now! 

The reason I mention the latter is that sometimes because of a lack of strength we make ourselves cheat the exercise a bit - thus resulting in doing things on the PT test incorrectly. Get on google/youtube and make your own exercise/nutrition plan and you'll have no trouble with the PT test.
For core work you can run a google search for Marine ab workout (it's killah!)

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Offline Kratos

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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #146 on: October 02, 2010, 14:07:53 »
Having great nutrition and proper protein and supplements to prevent loss of muscle mass from training should be your top priority - especially for those who need to lose the fat and gain muscle.

If you caloric intake is where it should be, you don't need supplements to prevent loss of muscle mass. The second part makes no sense because you cannot lose fat and gain muscle at the same time, unless you are either severely obese and/or a complete beginner at strength training. Even then, this won't occur for very long.

It's difficult to do, but you really can lose the fat and maintain or improve muscle mass at the same time. Just have to have the necessary protein with minimal fats (and only the good fats) in your system.

No, you can't. Period. In almost all scenarios, and especially if you are physically active at all, you will not be able to lose fat and build muscle at the same time.

Calories in > calories out = gain weight (muscle + fat)
Calories out > calories in = lose weight (muscle + fat)

Weight gain/loss is dependent on the calorie equations above, not protein intake.

For the second equation, yes, keeping your protein intake high along with weight training will aid in minimizing/reducing the amount of muscle tissue lost, but if you are losing weight, you ARE losing muscle mass.

Of course, the exception to this rule would be if you were using AAS (steroids). Sure, you can gain muscle and reduce your body fat percentage... if you're running Trenbolone acetate.

I know this is about the PT test, but a lot of people don't realize that the reason why they're small despite even working out like crazy could be that their body is already absorbing all the protein. If there's no protein left - your body takes it from your muscles ... thus, you remain a stick.    (First hand life experience)  I'm 6'1 and 195 lbs now, prior to eating smart and using protein supplements (7 years ago) I was 145 lb stick-man, lol.
Believe it or not I worked out more then than I do now! 

The reason people who lift weights all the time are still small is simple: They don't eat enough. It has nothing to do with protein.

The following exchange pops up on the internet too many times to count:

"Omg I've been lifting weights for six months, but I'm not getting bigger. Why?"
"You're not eating enough."
"No. I eat SOOOO much."
"Well, obviously not, or you'd be getting bigger/gaining weight. Pretty simple."

"If there's no protein left - your body takes it from your muscles ... thus, you remain a stick."

That's just flat out incorrect. Could you provide some scientific evidence for that? Probably not, because protein doesn't even get stored in your muscles, so there'd be none there for your body to "take". You remained a stick because you weren't eating enough. It took you seven years to go from 145-195 lbs and you're "crediting" it to protein supplements? If it took you the full seven years to gain that weight, that's a gain of 0.59 lbs of weight per month.

I can only speak for myself, but I went from ~178-205 lbs in about five months (Sept '09 - Jan '10). I stopped "trying" to gain weight at about that point, but settled at around 210 lbs by June-ish and am there currently at 5'10.

Protein supplements are just that: Supplements. Not a be-all, end-all. It's just powdered food. When possible, I'd rather eat a handful of almonds than have a protein shake.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2010, 00:49:02 by Kratos »

Offline Vimy_gunner

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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #147 on: October 03, 2010, 01:29:21 »
Well, I'm a Kinesiology major and  I'm learning from my prof who has a doctorate in exercise science and nutrition.  My textbook is full of evidence saying what you eat matters more than just eating your calorie requirement.

 Very few people eat enough protein sources to keep muscle mass. If you eat too many carbs instead of more protein, your body turns some of those carbs into fat or it becomes empty calories as your body can only store a minimal amount of ATP (energy sources) within your body. Thus the reason why most people gain fat with muscle. If you reduce carb intake and increase proteins (as bodybuilders do) you can minimize the process of requiring to put on fat before turning it into muscle. With slow and very precise eating/exercise plan you can slowly buildup the size and muscle while keeping definition or the lack of a tire tube, lol.
 Eating Carbs produce ATP moles (bodies main energy source) that come out in the form of instant energy in the forms of glycolysis and phosphate creatine cells. If the energy from carbs is not used within a short period of time it turns into fat or becomes empty calories as I stated above. There's also a limit to the amount of ATP which can be stored in your body as reserves. You might be surprised to learn that protein rich ATP sources retained from eating proteins can remain in storage within the bodies energy systems in higher quantity and be pumped out to your muscles (so to speak) when they're needed.

Reducing fat intake to an absolute minimum daily requirement (about 65 calories for the avg person) along with proper protein in the diet and carbs enough to just get through your workouts and daily activities will result in minimal muscle loss ( if any) and the loss of fat if there's any to burn. It's not a common method for trainers to tell most people because it requires the strictest diet and training regiment. In other words, going out for fast food once in a week can destroy this method. This is an eating perfect method only. No coke, no juice, no beer, no starch and not even a few pretzels. Not even dairy products. Oh and eating food rich in fibre.  If you eat lots of fibre you can safely reduce your fat intake.

You're right, protein isn't stored in the muscles, but after working out and your muscles are tired your brain asks for more ATP to be produced from protein rich foods to be sent to those muscles. I could go into more science of why protein does matter, but takes a crazy amount of time to learn yourself, let along trying to tell someone else.

 Whey protein along with glutamine help repair muscle tissue and amino acids accelerate the process of energy and protein throughout the body by meeting with ATP inside the mitochondria and being transported by the body through the Krebs cycle. I'm guessing you haven't got a clue what I just said and that's why I won't go into further scientific analysis.

I'm not obese in the least and in the last four weeks I upped my nutrition to my perfect diet (carb/protein/fat percentages)  resulting in the loss of 7 lbs of body-fat, while putting on approx 5 more lbs muscle in the same time-frame. 

Just a correction, but it didn't take 7 years to put on the weight and muscle I mentioned - it took about 7/8 months of eating the perfect percentages and working out like crazy. This was five years ago that I did it. So, very minimal change since then. I'm now back on that perfect diet plan. Actually I ate considerably more food prior to this! Eating has NEVER been an issue and usually when others are sitting at the dinner table with white space left on their plates, mine would be overflowing. The difference was that back then I ate a lot more carbs.

And I'm talking about taking protein supplements (in addition) to regular good proteins such as almonds. Wasn't recommending anyone should supplement a meal with these supplements, but they certainly help (in addition) to eating protein rich natural foods. Although you're intaking an awful lot of fat eating those which could explain why you may have had issues with gaining muscles and fat at the same time. Considering how many almonds you'd have to eat instead of a protein shake, I can understand why you might have had issues doing both at the same time. Almonds are great source for reducing bad cholesterol and upping the good cholesterol, but in order to intake 30 g of protein from almonds 2-4 times a day, you'd have to intake a hell of a lot of fat from those almonds, resulting in fat buildup. Eating more protein in your diet and eliminating unnecessary fats would have helped do both at the same time.  Less than a handful of almonds a day results in more fat calories than your body needs daily as a minimal requirement. If you're using it to fulfill protein requirements instead of a shake, it's going to result in fat buildup and unneeded calories.

To say that what types and percentage of your calorie intake doesn't matter is just not true.
Just take this for example, if you ate 100% of your daily caloric requirement in fatty foods, you'd be a walking blimp in no time and have serious issues with health besides the weight.
If you ate 100% of calories required in only carbs, your insulin lvls would jump through the roof and you'd end up as a blimp once again.
I exaggerated the affects of eating fat and carbs in the above sentences to show that it does matter what calories you put in your body.

Again, I will go further into the science of it if you like, but it's very time consuming, lol.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2010, 01:34:10 by Vimy_gunner »
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Offline lethalLemon

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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #148 on: October 03, 2010, 02:07:30 »
*filler*

Are you sure about that? The evidence I have obtained through experiment and observation (application of studies  :o oh no!); I dropped from 163 lbs to 126 lbs in 7 weeks. This was at Vernon Army Cadet Summer Training Centre in 2009. I walked everywhere, I jogged in the mornings to work on my cardio, I did unreal amounts of chin-ups and push-ups each time I entered and exited a building (which was numerous); all the while it's +40 degrees Celsius outside so I'm sweating like a pig in my OG107s as I'm doing all this.

I lost A LOT of mass, and even though I was still eating like a friggin pig in the mess hall - and was sometimes eating 2 or 3 IMPs per mealtime (Breakfast, Lunch, Dinner) because I was so damn hungry and needed the energy (spent most of my 7 weeks in the Field Training Area). I never gained any of my weight back, and I ate EVERYTHING! Proper nutrition and diet control, what's that!? Yeah, I was getting in my fruits and vegetables and fulfilling all my daily nutritional requirements, but I also ate all kinds of greasy fried junk on top of it all - in massive quantities too! I'm surprised the Panago Pizza in Vernon didn't have my name down as "Most Valuable Customer"! (or a doctor diagnose me with diabetes... or high cholesterol/blood pressure )

"Your frame and weight did not alter, how so?"

Simple as this:

I was burning more calories than what was coming in through my disgustingly large amounts of food during meal times.

You don't need to be a scientist to figure that one out, you just need to do it.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2010, 02:12:42 by lethalLemon »
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Offline Kratos

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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #149 on: October 03, 2010, 02:46:30 »
Well, I'm a Kinesiology major and  I'm learning from my prof who has a doctorate in exercise science and nutrition.  My textbook is full of evidence saying what you eat matters more than just eating your calorie requirement.

 Very few people eat enough protein sources to keep muscle mass. If you eat too many carbs instead of more protein, your body turns some of those carbs into fat or it becomes empty calories as your body can only store a minimal amount of ATP (energy sources) within your body. Thus the reason why most people gain fat with muscle. If you reduce carb intake and increase proteins (as bodybuilders do) you can minimize the process of requiring to put on fat before turning it into muscle. With slow and very precise eating/exercise plan you can slowly buildup the size and muscle while keeping definition or the lack of a tire tube, lol.

You are never going to gain 100% muscle. No matter what, if you are putting on weight, some of it will be fat. Your body is not perfect. You minimize the gain of fat by eating closer to your caloric maintenance. Also, I really hope you are not saying that you can turn fat into muscle.


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Eating Carbs produce ATP moles (bodies main energy source) that come out in the form of instant energy in the forms of glycolysis and phosphate creatine cells. If the energy from carbs is not used within a short period of time it turns into fat or becomes empty calories as I stated above. There's also a limit to the amount of ATP which can be stored in your body as reserves. You might be surprised to learn that protein rich ATP sources retained from eating proteins can remain in storage within the bodies energy systems in higher quantity and be pumped out to your muscles (so to speak) when they're needed.

Reducing fat intake to an absolute minimum daily requirement (about 65 calories for the avg person) along with proper protein in the diet and carbs enough to just get through your workouts and daily activities will result in minimal muscle loss ( if any) and the loss of fat if there's any to burn. It's not a common method for trainers to tell most people because it requires the strictest diet and training regiment. In other words, going out for fast food once in a week can destroy this method. This is an eating perfect method only. No coke, no juice, no beer, no starch and not even a few pretzels. Not even dairy products. Oh and eating food rich in fibre.  If you eat lots of fibre you can safely reduce your fat intake.

If you are concerned with athletic/physical performance, why would you ever eat like this? There's absolutely nothing wrong with eating animal fats.

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You're right, protein isn't stored in the muscles, but after working out and your muscles are tired your brain asks for more ATP to be produced from protein rich foods to be sent to those muscles. I could go into more science of why protein does matter, but takes a crazy amount of time to learn yourself, let along trying to tell someone else.

 Whey protein along with glutamine help repair muscle tissue and amino acids accelerate the process of energy and protein throughout the body by meeting with ATP inside the mitochondria and being transported by the body through the Krebs cycle. I'm guessing you haven't got a clue what I just said and that's why I won't go into further scientific analysis.

I am a first year Kinesiology student, but no, you're right, I don't really know what much of that means.

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I'm not obese in the least and in the last four weeks I upped my nutrition to my perfect diet (carb/protein/fat percentages)  resulting in the loss of 7 lbs of body-fat, while putting on approx 5 more lbs muscle in the same time-frame.

You just lost every shred credibility by trying to say you lost 7 lbs of body fat and gained 5 lbs of muscle in the same time frame. That's absolutely laughable, since it's literally impossible.

Do I need to provide scientific evidence for that? Two quotes from an extensive review by Hartgens and Kuiper:

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Most studies show that bodyweight may increase by 2–5kg as a result of short-term (<10 weeks) AAS use.

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The greatest drug-enhanced gains seen in the scientific literature are 7 kg (15.4 lbs) in 6 weeks, or about 2.5 lbs per week.

And yet you're claiming to have lost seven pounds of fat and gained 5 pounds of muscle in the same time period? So you simultaneously lost seven pounds and gained five pounds?

Beside the above being physically impossible, do you actually know how long it takes to naturally gain 5 lbs of lean body mass? An extremely long time.

Losing weight requires a caloric deficit.

Gaining weight requires a caloric surplus.

How can you possibly do both at the same time? How can you not understand that simple law being in Kinesiology?

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Just a correction, but it didn't take 7 years to put on the weight and muscle I mentioned - it took about 7/8 months of eating the perfect percentages and working out like crazy. This was five years ago that I did it. So, very minimal change since then. I'm now back on that perfect diet plan. Actually I ate considerably more food prior to this! Eating has NEVER been an issue and usually when others are sitting at the dinner table with white space left on their plates, mine would be overflowing. The difference was that back then I ate a lot more carbs.

And I'm talking about taking protein supplements (in addition) to regular good proteins such as almonds. Wasn't recommending anyone should supplement a meal with these supplements, but they certainly help (in addition) to eating protein rich natural foods. Although you're intaking an awful lot of fat eating those which could explain why you may have had issues with gaining muscles and fat at the same time. Considering how many almonds you'd have to eat instead of a protein shake, I can understand why you might have had issues doing both at the same time. Almonds are great source for reducing bad cholesterol and upping the good cholesterol, but in order to intake 30 g of protein from almonds 2-4 times a day, you'd have to intake a hell of a lot of fat from those almonds, resulting in fat buildup. Eating more protein in your diet and eliminating unnecessary fats would have helped do both at the same time.  Less than a handful of almonds a day results in more fat calories than your body needs daily as a minimal requirement. If you're using it to fulfill protein requirements instead of a shake, it's going to result in fat buildup and unneeded calories.

I didn't and don't have any "issues" with fat gain, because I don't desire to look like the recent trend of manorexic Hollywood actors. Do you really think the fat from almonds is bad fat? Almonds are very healthy and I eat a ton of them. I still don't think you realise that you can't gain body weight without gaining fat. Your body fat percentage may remain relatively stable, but you are going to gain fat.

Eating fat does not = gaining fat........ Eating too many calories = getting fat.

Please define unneeded calories for me. That entirely depends on your goals.

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To say that what types and percentage of your calorie intake doesn't matter is just not true.
Just take this for example, if you ate 100% of your daily caloric requirement in fatty foods, you'd be a walking blimp in no time and have serious issues with health besides the weight.
If you ate 100% of calories required in only carbs, your insulin lvls would jump through the roof and you'd end up as a blimp once again.
I exaggerated the affects of eating fat and carbs in the above sentences to show that it does matter what calories you put in your body.

Ratios might matter if you're into "getting ripped bro" and training for looks.

I don't really have that problem, since I eat and lift for strength. I don't sit down, count calories and figure out my macro ratio, though.

If you are active and eating a mostly healthy diet, there's no reason for you to be counting ratios.

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Again, I will go further into the science of it if you like, but it's very time consuming, lol.

After reading this post, I don't know if you should.

It honestly really worries me that you are in kinesiology and can spit out all that scientific jargon, yet not understand the fundamentals. It doesn't matter who your prof is or what kind of piece of paper they have framed on their wall.

I don't know what your goals are for training, but mine are purely performance based. I eat and train to get bigger and stronger. I have never counted calories, nor will I ever. I eat healthy and I eat a lot. Am I "ripped"? Nope. Am I fat? Nope. But I'll carry a little extra weight if it means I can perform better. It's funny when really skinny guys say they're "ripped". No, lol, you're just malnourished and you're very weak. If I ever want to lose weight, I'll cut out any junk food and eat the exact same foods, except less of them. If I want to gain weight, I will eat the same foods, but more of them. The beauty is that it really is that simple.

My diet mainly consists of oatmeal, yogurt, fish, meat, eggs, almonds, veggies, fruit and, most days, I drink around 2L of homogenized milk. Some days, I'll drink 1L of chocolate milk on top. Donuts, hamburgers, pop, candy and Doritos all make occasional, but rare guest appearances.

At 5'9-10, 210 lbs, I am still small. At 6'1, 195, you are quite skinny.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2010, 02:59:02 by Kratos »