Topic: PLD ON ENROLMENT

[CountDC]

Refs: A. CBI 205.45(1) Definitions http://www.dnd.ca/dgcb/cbi/pdf/CBI_205_Sec_3.pdf
B. http://hr.ottawa-hull.mil.ca/dgcb/dppd/pld/engraph/PLD_FAQ_e.asp?sidesection=8&sidecat=12
C. CFAO 209-28(22) Removal Benefits

Good day to all;

Hopefully someone here can help with this one.  I am after actual regulations other than those above in regards to subj.  I am trying to establish 100% if a mbr enrolled and posted with move of HG&E restricted is entitled to PLD. According to ref A and B mbr is entitled to PLD at rate of enrolment location until move is authorized.

[FinClk]

Not really sure what the issue is or what else you are looking for Ref's A & B spell it out pretty clearly to me. Ref C has nothing to do with PLD or TPLD.

I am after actual regulations other than those above in regards to subj. 

Ref A IS the actual regulation.

According to ref A and B mbr is entitled to PLD at rate of enrolment location until move is authorized.

(iii) the place where the member’s household goods and effects were located on enrolment, if that place is a place of duty and the member is not authorized to move their household goods and effects at public expense to their place of duty

I am trying to establish 100% if a mbr enrolled and posted with move of HG&E restricted is entitled to PLD.

Once again I could quote several passages to this effect which all answer your question. Restricted is removed once you secure lodgings/accomodations at the new location.

As I said before, you have all the refs, they spell it out very clearly making hard to figure out what it is you are looking for. Other threads on the issue also provide insight into PLD entitlements. It therefore makes it obvious that you were provided information which you disagree with, and that is what you need to provide if you want appropriate feedback.

[CountDC]

hmmm - guess I wasn't as clear as I thought so maybe this will help:

Further info:

I am attempting to resolve an issue where mbr has been informed they are not entitled to PLD. Although Ref A and B does support PLD entitlement I have been around too long to assume that is the end of it.  There may have been an amendment or CANFORGEN or someother forsaken ruling released over ruling this that I have missed but someone else has.

Ref C may come into play here yet - have to see what answers some give.

[FinClk]

Then all I can tell you is the CBI, if the mbr meets the criteria then there it is, to be handled in the same way as anything else in the military.

[MasterInstructor]

While searching I came across with this thread.

I am from New Westminster BC, which is in Greater Vancouver. PLD rate for Vancouver is approx $1200. I am living common law and have a mortgage. Since Vancouver will remain as my primary residence during basic and QL3, will I be entitled to PLD?

I taught I was not entitled but heard otherwise from somebody but wanted to double check. Clerk at CFRC Vancouver was busy so I could not talk to him, I will try to get a hold of him again. I also don't want to sound stupid when I talk to him.. Any input would be appreciated...

[CallOfDuty]

  MI.....you don't start getting PLD until after BMQ.  I was living in Halifax during my BMQ and did my ql3 here.  Thats when I started PLD....when I started my 3's.  However ,I wonder if it's that way for people who do their 3's away from home? 
  You'll receive free rations&quarters + separation pay from your wife.  Thats almost 1000 bucks a month savings your single buddies who live at home with mom won't receive.
 

[PMedMoe]

According to CBI Chapter 205.03*, Definition of Primary Residence:

the place where the member’s household goods and effects were located on enrolment, if that place is a place of duty and the member is not authorized to move their household goods and effects at public expense to their place of duty;

Since prior to enrolment, you are not considered at a place of duty, I don't see how you can be entitled to PLD.  Of course, I could be wrong.....but that's how I interpret it.  You would not be considered at a "place of duty" until you start BMQ.

*Note: This link may not be accessible on the internet.

[MasterInstructor]

the place where the member’s household goods and effects were located on enrollment, if that place is a place of duty and the member is not authorized to move their household goods and effects at public expense to their place of duty;

That sentence is what I am having issues understanding... To me it means that, if my place primary residence upon enrollment could be a place of duty in the future and I am not allowed to move my household to my current place of duty "St.Jean" I would qualify. In another words, a person from Whistler, BC  would not qualify because a person can not be posted to Whistler BC, because there is no Canadian Forces Base. I think everything comes down to this sentence.

I am not trying to be greedy or anything, I did not think about this until yesterday someone told me that they are getting it at BMQ.... They might be in a special situation or he thinks he is getting it but he is not... Maybe confused with Separation Expense...

And thinking about it, it does make sense... Yes I will be saving ~ $1000 compared to single guys however my living expenses for my residence where my wife is living is much higher than somebody from elsewhere in the country except Toronto...

Anyways, I think best thing to do is talk to a Clerk which wont happen till Thursday...

[PMedMoe]

To me, that sentence implies that your primary residence is at your place of duty, not a place of duty.  And not a "place of duty in the future".  If you are eventually posted there, then you will receive PLD.

Yes, speaking to a clerk is your best bet.  Keep in mind that you should endeavor to get a correct interpretation of the rules.  I would rather not get something and receive it later as a result of an audit or grievance much more than I would like to have to pay it back, as a result of an audit.

[MasterInstructor]

Just a quick update...

I asked  Clerk [name removed by moderator] at CFRC Vancouver, no PLD during BMQ. Just like I originally taught....

cheers

[jeffb]

I'm pretty sure that married/common-law members are entitled to receive PLD and SA through BMQ though. When I went through St. Jean last year everyone on my platoon who was married/common law, including myself, did.

[PMedMoe]

I'm pretty sure that married/common-law members are entitled to receive PLD and SA through BMQ though. When I went through St. Jean last year everyone on my platoon who was married/common law, including myself, did.

SA and free R&Q, yes.  PLD?  Not so sure about that.

[MasterInstructor]

If I do get PLD at BMQ, I will post it here for sure... I am planing on asking again in St.Jean...

[Tango18A]

I didn't think PLD was authorized if you lived in the Shacks. It was only to off set high rent/ purchase prices if living off the economy.

[SupersonicMax]

I didn't think PLD was authorized if you lived in the Shacks. It was only to off set high rent/ purchase prices if living off the economy.

If you live in the shacks and single no.  If you primary residence is not where you are serving and you live in the shacks where you are serving, then yes.  I had that happen to me when I was in Moose Jaw and my wife was in Winnipeg.  I got SA + Free R&Q + Winnipeg PLD.

[MasterInstructor]

If you live in the shacks and single no.  If you primary residence is not where you are serving and you live in the shacks where you are serving, then yes.  I had that happen to me when I was in Moose Jaw and my wife was in Winnipeg.  I got SA + Free R&Q + Winnipeg PLD.

What level of training were you doing in Moose Jaw? QL3?

My wife will be in Vancouver while I will be at Basic and then QL3 in Victoria...

[CallOfDuty]

...supersonicmax is right.....that's exactly what'll happen.  Don't even bother asking for it in St Jean! 
PS--he's a pilot.

[jeffb]

...supersonicmax is right.....that's exactly what'll happen.  Don't even bother asking for it in St Jean! 
PS--he's a pilot.

I'm not a clerk so I'm totally out of my lane when it comes to quoting you a reference or being able to differentiate one situation from another, but what I can tell you is that when I went through St. Jean doing BMOQ starting in Jan of last year, I received SA, free R&Q and PLD for Toronto- Zone 1 to be specific- (as that's where my address was) as a common-law member.

Frankly, from reading this thread I'm not sure why I was entitled to PLD but as long as it doesn't get clawed back in the future, I'm not complaining.

[CallOfDuty]

..hmmmmm....sounds fishy to me Jeff.  I'm pretty sure you shouldn't have gotten it.

[MasterInstructor]

Hi All

I just wanted to let you know that I am at BMQ right now. All married/common law recruits were handed out a PLD Application and will be receiving it depending on their geographical location.

[readytogo]

Can anyone tell me where i can find info on what would be recieved for a recruit living in edmonton with a mortgage and dependants
also what is the R&Q at St. Jean?

just trying to work out a budget for the future which will help me decide between res and reg

[MasterInstructor]

R&Q is approx 600 but you dont pay if you are married / common law with mortgage. (I am not sure about other dependents)

PLD is 684 for Edmonton

cheers

[readytogo]

gotta love confusion, i spoke to a recruiter yesterday and he told me that i would not pay R&Q but no PLD

[GAP]

This from another thread http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=92926.0

CANFORGEN 090/09 CMP 039/09 141802Z MAY 09

SUBJ: POST LIVING DIFFERENTIAL (PLD) 2009/2010 RATES

REFS: A. CBI 205.45 (POST LIVING DIFFERENTIAL)
B. CBI 205.452 (TRANSITIONAL POST LIVING DIFFERENTIAL)
C. CANFORGEN 061/08 CMP 024/08 311241Z MAR 08

1. THE PURPOSE OF THIS MESSAGE IS TO PROMULGATE THE TB APPROVED PLD RATES, EFFECTIVE 1 APR 09

2. IAW REF A THE FOLLOWING 2009 RATES ARE EFFECTIVE 1 APR 09, READ IN TWO COLUMNS: PLD AREA, 2009 FULL RATE: ALDERGROVE  418
CALGARY  711
CAMBRIDGE  71
COLD LAKE  319
EDMONTON  684
GUELPH  167
HALIFAX  631
HAMILTON  414
KAMLOOPS/KELOWNA  525
KITCHENER  62
LETHBRIDGE  234
MEAFORD  77
MEDICINE HAT  145
MONTREAL NORTH SHORE       505
MONTREAL SOUTH SHORE  376
MOOSE JAW  284
NANAIMO  75
QUEBEC CITY/VALCARTIER  117
RED DEER  327
REGINA  62
SASKATOON  382
SEPT-ILES  107
ST JOHN S  149
STRATFORD  82
TORONTO AREA 1  1485
TORONTO AREA 2  506
TORONTO AREA 3  522
TORONTO AREA 4  819
TORONTO AREA 5  1167
VANCOUVER  1083
VICTORIA/ESQUIMALT  816


3. TRANSITIONAL PLD (TPLD) WAS ESTABLISHED AT LOCATIONS THAT EXPERIENCED DECREASES IN PLD RATES AS A RESULT OF THE NEW PLD METHODOLOGY INTRODUCED EFFECTIVE 1 JUL 07. THE TPLD RATES CAN BE FOUND AT REF B WHERE GROUP A COMPRISES OFFICERS IN THE RANK OF CAPTAIN OR ABOVE, AND NON-COMMISSIONED MEMBERS IN THE RANK OF WARRANT OFFICER OR ABOVE AND GROUP B COMPRISES OFFICERS IN THE RANK OF LIEUTENANT OR BELOW, AND NON-COMMISSIONED MEMBERS IN THE RANK OF SERGEANT OR BELOW. THE FOLLOWING ARE THE TB APPROVED TPLD RATES EFFECTIVE 1 APR 09, READ IN THREE COLUMNS TPLD AREA, GROUP A FULL RATE, GROUP B FULL RATE:

TPLD AREA  GROUP A
FULL RATE     GROUP B
FULL RATE 
BARRIE/BORDEN  58  87 
BRANTFORD  76  114 
CAMBRIDGE  PLD  85 
CORNERBROOK  55  83 
GRAND FALLS/WINDSOR  89  133 
GUELPH  PLD  245 
HALIFAX  PLD  PLD 
HAMILTON  PLD  PLD 
KINGSTON  NA  16 
KITCHENER  113  170 
LONDON  NA  46 
MONTREAL NORTH SHORE  PLD  PLD 
MONTREAL SOUTH SHORE  PLD  404 
NANAIMO  PLD  PLD 
NIAGARA/ST CATHARINES  116  174 
NORTH BAY  NA  6 
OTTAWA/GATINEAU  131  196 
PETERBOROUGH  NA  68 
QUEBEC CITY/VALCARTIER  126  189 
SEPT-ILES  PLD  112 
ST JOHN S  205  308 
ST-HYACINTHE  NA  24 
STRATFORD  138  207 
TORONTO AREA 1  PLD  1586 
TORONTO AREA 2  PLD  670 
TORONTO AREA 3  PLD  543 
TORONTO AREA 4  PLD  1006 
TORONTO AREA 5  PLD  1377 
WINDSOR  221  332 


4. IAW REF B CF PERSONNEL ARE ENTITLED TO THE GREATER OF PLD OR TPLD FOR THEIR LOCATION. ACCORDINGLY, EVEN THOUGH THE FOLLOWING LOCATIONS HAVE TPLD RATES, THEY ARE AUTHORIZED TO RECEIVE PLD VICE TPLD EFFECTIVE 1 APR 09: CAMBRIDGE  (RANK GROUP A) 
GUELPH  (RANK GROUP A) 
HALIFAX  (RANK GROUP A AND B) 
HAMILTON  (RANK GROUP A AND B) 
MONTREAL NORTH SHORE  (RANK GROUP A AND B) 
MONTREAL SOUTH SHORE      (RANK GROUP A) 
NANAIMO  (RANK GROUP A AND B) 
SEPT-ILES  (RANK GROUP A) 
TORONTO AREA 1  (RANK GROUP A) 
TORONTO AREA 2  (RANK GROUP A) 
TORONTO AREA 3  (RANK GROUP A) 
TORONTO AREA 4  (RANK GROUP A) 
TORONTO AREA 5  (RANK GROUP A) 


5. LOCATIONS NOT LISTED IN THIS MESSAGE ARE NOT PLD OR TPLD AREAS AND PERSONNEL AT THESE LOCATIONS ARE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR EITHER ALLOWANCE

6. AS STATED PREVIOUSLY, PLD RATES MAY NOW BE SUBJECTED TO SIGNIFICANT INCREASES OR DECREASES FROM YEAR-TO-YEAR, CF PERSONNEL ARE HEREBY ADVISED NOT TO MAKE LONG-TERM FINANCIAL COMMITMENTS BASED ON THE ABOVE RATES

7. SIGNED BY MGEN W. SEMIANIW, CMP.

[PMedMoe]

I just wanted to let you know that I am at BMQ right now. All married/common law recruits were handed out a PLD Application and will be receiving it depending on their geographical location.

So why only married/common law?  What about a single recruit who is maintaining a primary residence?  I understand that they would not get free R&Q and SA, but they should get PLD.

A member without dependants who maintains a principal residence at a place of duty while serving on an attached posting, remains entitled to PLD for the duration of the posting, at the rate established in this instruction’s Table for that location’s PLDA.