Author Topic: Integrating lessons from Afghanistan into individual trg & Trg for war vs trg for this war  (Read 15350 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Spectrum

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 23,410
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 915
Attention to detail is vital for the profession of arms.  Having said that, attention to detail does NOT imply sameness among many.  Imagine if you will a section of soldiers in Canada, on parade, in Fighting Order.  The sergeant comes by, and they all look the same.  Finding faults would be easy.  Now imagine the same section on parade, C9 gunners wearing C9 "stuff", same with riflemen.  This rifleman has an M 203, that one doesn't.  This rifleman has a special med kit, the others don't.  Big friggin deal.  The sergeant doing the inspection (imagine it's at WAATC, or any other battle school for that matter) checks each soldier's kit.  Not for sameness, but for functionality (and cleanliness, of course, and all that other jazz).  So-and-so has dust in his pistol grip.  Big deal, right?  I mean, it's not going to affect his weapon's function.  Having said that, given that it's a garrison parade in barracks, that soldier just demonstrated that he didn't pay attention to detail (see above).


And as MG 34 said, functionality of kit is also important.  Looking the same is "okay" if you're on parliament hill on a sunny Saturday, parading for the 125th anniversary of the founding of your respective regiments, but looking the same for sameness' sake in the fields of Panjwai is a potentially fatal error.


You can also really tell who can't move beyond what they learned on PLQ, when they can't comprehend why a person might want to say skip the canteen pouch and use two C9 pouches, or have their TV lowered.

Someone tell me we're having an institutional shift in terms of this stuff?  ???
Supporting the warfighter

Offline a Sig Op

  • Milnet.ca Subscriber
  • Milnet.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 38,982
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,295
  • I'm just a musical prostitute, my dear.
You can also really tell who can't move beyond what they learned on PLQ, when they can't comprehend why a person might want to say skip the canteen pouch and use two C9 pouches, or have their TV lowered.

Don't be knocking PLQ... before I did PLQ, I thought the keys to discipline were having motivated well-moraled troops with clear direction, goals, and firm, decisive, effective leadership.

Thank-god my course WO on PLQ sorted me out there. Apparently the one and only key to discipline is hats. As long as everyone wears the same hat, you'll have an effective fighting force.
"They let you do that?"  "You know, I never asked, they'd probably say no, it is an army base after all."
- Sgt. Bilko

"So what happens if we use this pick with out BEWs?" "Um, you could get a pick in the eye master-corporal?"

Offline Rider Pride

  • Mentor
  • Milnet.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 16,868
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 4,378
  • Easy to draw, hard to spell
Attention to detail is vital for the profession of arms.  Having said that, attention to detail does NOT imply sameness among many. 
And hence why, in my personal opinion, it should be emphasised on course. Its not like everything thats is taught at school is exactly like it is at Bn.

Audeamus

"Return with your shield, or upon it."

Offline a Sig Op

  • Milnet.ca Subscriber
  • Milnet.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 38,982
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,295
  • I'm just a musical prostitute, my dear.
And hence why, in my personal opinion, it should be emphasised on course. Its not like everything thats is taught at school is exactly like it is at Bn.

Herein lies a huge personal pet peeve of mine. If it doesn't apply to reality, why teach it? The fact that most of the schools are 10 steps behind reality drives me nuts... example, my QL3 did little to train me as a sig-op, in particular, my QL5 was even worse in training me to be a det commander... if it's not practical, then cut out the nonsense and fix the curriculum.

Though that just ties us back to the irritation with the parade square mentality in the field... it really only does anything for poorly trained/poorly motivated troops. Create the artificial goal of everyone looking the same, and they'll work towards that, including maintenance of kit. Give them a real goal of accomplishing a mission, motivate them to do it, and some flexibility towards that end, and they'll square their kit on their own because it's required to meet their goal.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2008, 20:29:18 by Just a Sig Op »
"They let you do that?"  "You know, I never asked, they'd probably say no, it is an army base after all."
- Sgt. Bilko

"So what happens if we use this pick with out BEWs?" "Um, you could get a pick in the eye master-corporal?"

Online CDN Aviator

  • Milnet.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 122,510
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 14,817
  • BD3D Op
    • Association of Old Crows
The fact that most of the schools are 10 steps behind reality drives me nuts...

Did you ever stop to wonder why ?

If combat vets and others with experience accepted postings to the various CF schools, then maybe we would make progress on that front. Since most guys balk at leaving their line units.......
"Ahh..... F**k it....weapon away !!"

"The only difference between peace and war is where we place our bombs" - General Curtis E. LeMay

Offline RHFC_piper

  • Broken but not beaten
  • Milnet.ca Subscriber
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • 19,707
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 813
  • Defence Not Defiance
Did you ever stop to wonder why ?

If combat vets and others with experience accepted postings to the various CF schools, then maybe we would make progress on that front. Since most guys balk at leaving their line units.......


Just to argue this one a little, and I really hope it's just a reserve unit thing;  When I came home, I was told in no uncertain terms that my knowledge was useless in the PRes system, as it didn't follow the IBTS guidelines...  There was no room in the trg plan for current knowledge and no one was interested except the JNCOs (who get in trouble for using the skills and techniques the vets passed on until they prove useful)

Then irony; The last 2 exercises of the year focussed on the same kind of stuff we did on TF3-06 and what is going on right now in Afghanistan. And the biggest issues with the last few ranges (live fire jungle lanes, pairs fire and movement and section attacks) were the lack of skills the vets of my tour offered to teach (tactical mag changes, etc.).   

And as for kit that has been more than proven in combat; no dice.



 
"Leadership in the Canadian Forces is not the role of one single person; it is the responsibility of all who wear the Canadian Forces uniform."
- Gen. Hillier

Offline BulletMagnet

  • Milnet.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 10,158
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,026
  • I'm not just disobedient, I'm careful
Did you ever stop to wonder why ?

If combat vets and others with experience accepted postings to the various CF schools, then maybe we would make progress on that front. Since most guys balk at leaving their line units.......


Not so, most of the Sgts and MCpls from TF3-6 were very quickly posted during the very next APS upon return almost exclusively to the schools (Meaford, Gagetown and Leadership School in Pet) Where from those I have had contact with since have said they are being told whatever your experience is it doesn't count here we teach as per CF standard not "how you did it in Afghanistan"....

Sadly it's an institutional malaise as it were IMO wherein because it is not standard it will not be taught. I am not sure how or why it seems to be this way maybe those that are much higher then I can explain it.
"Often have I regretted my speech, never my silence" Cpl Jordan Anderson 1981-2007 RIP

When the going gets tough I take a nap...It's easier that way
#148 | Rank: 48 | Cbt Exp: 120,870 | Msns: 512

Offline PuckChaser

  • Mentor
  • Milnet.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 133,453
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,631
    • Peacekeeper's Homepage
Not so, most of the Sgts and MCpls from TF3-6 were very quickly posted during the very next APS upon return almost exclusively to the schools (Meaford, Gagetown and Leadership School in Pet) Where from those I have had contact with since have said they are being told whatever your experience is it doesn't count here we teach as per CF standard not "how you did it in Afghanistan"....

That's a shame really, why bother posting them to the schools if they can't explain how the real world works? They'd be better off at CMTC or just staying at their units.

Offline Hatchet Man

  • Milnet.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 5,385
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,468
.

Sadly it's an institutional malaise as it were IMO wherein because it is not standard it will not be taught. I am not sure how or why it seems to be this way maybe those that are much higher then I can explain it.

Operational jealousy/envy?

Offline Rider Pride

  • Mentor
  • Milnet.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 16,868
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 4,378
  • Easy to draw, hard to spell
they are being told whatever your experience is it doesn't count here we teach as per CF standard not "how you did it in Afghanistan"....

Perhaps a malaise, but if you recall a class I taught, I tried not to teach the way we do it in Afghanistan because I wanted to teach you skills for "war", not just skills for "THIS war"

edit to add- definitely not operation envy here.
But theres a piss-off issue when you are teaching or practicing a generic SOP, and someone says "well that's not the way we did it in A, B or C when I was there."
« Last Edit: June 02, 2008, 21:51:59 by St. Micheals Medical Team »
Audeamus

"Return with your shield, or upon it."

Offline Rider Pride

  • Mentor
  • Milnet.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 16,868
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 4,378
  • Easy to draw, hard to spell
Just to argue this one a little, and I really hope it's just a reserve unit thing;  When I came home, I was told in no uncertain terms that my knowledge was useless in the PRes system, as it didn't follow the IBTS guidelines... 
Perhaps the issue was in the presentation?
Audeamus

"Return with your shield, or upon it."

Online MJP

  • Milnet.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 13,045
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,970
I agree with SMMT, there is a time and a place for great attention to detail.  A course especially a leadership course is designed if properly done to teach a soldier how to accomplish a task using the appropriate steps.  SMESC, battle procedure, Msn Analysis, Courses of Action etc etc.  It really doesn't matter what the task or scenario is as long as it is reasonable realistic and a soldier is given the time, tools and prior knowledge to follow all the steps.  It gives the soldier the depth of knowledge and the ability to tailor his orders to the time and situation at hand later on when he is faced with an armed enemy, tight timelines and real flanking forces that he has to consider.

We all know that things are done differently in Afghanistan, where FRAGOs rule the day.  Things were also done differently in Bosnia, Kosovo and every other place that the CF deployed to.  The reason we as the CF made it work and the reason we make it work in our current operations is at every level we were taught and read off the same sheet of music.  Commanders at every level know and understand battle procedure and if given the time can produce excellent orders.  I saw extremely well done and full blown Orders groups for routine convoys.  On the other hand I have heard on the radio with a quick FRAGO an entire BG stop in it's tracks, reverse direction and go back into Helmand Province to recapture some district centers that fell to ACM forces.

Likewise everyone knows you do not do a section attack across the opens plains in Afghanistan like soldiers do on a PLQ.  But really the section attack is just a tool/vehicle to get young/old Cpls to direct soldiers in a section setting against an armed enemy.  It is a matter of getting the basics down and mastered before jetting off to leading a section through complex terrain at night while under fire.  Some people are natural leaders and would have zero problems doing it with little practice.  Most people myself included have learnt the hard way through mistakes in training how to direct soldiers in combat.  That is why a course like PLQ stresses doing all the steps in the proper order at the right time.  Once you've mastered it you will know when to ditch the useless and go with the pertinent to your situation at that time.  But how will you ever know what that is UNLESS you have trained using all the proper steps.

Funny the soldiers that always talk about this is Ghey or this is not the way we did it in Afghanistan are the same ones that have trouble understanding the orders process to begin with.  It shows with horrible attacks/recces because they didn't understand what they were being asked to do nor could they properly convey that to their soldiers.  If they had a grasp on the basics, everything after that is gravy.

 
Did you ever stop to wonder why ?

If combat vets and others with experience accepted postings to the various CF schools, then maybe we would make progress on that front. Since most guys balk at leaving their line units.......

Dude I don't know about other units but 1 VP lost almost all their experience right after the TF1-06 with tons of officer and NCM postings to various schools across the board.  What was left is slowly being eroded away natural attrition and subsequent postings the following APS. 

 

Not so, most of the Sgts and MCpls from TF3-6 were very quickly posted during the very next APS upon return almost exclusively to the schools (Meaford, Gagetown and Leadership School in Pet) Where from those I have had contact with since have said they are being told whatever your experience is it doesn't count here we teach as per CF standard not "how you did it in Afghanistan"....

Sadly it's an institutional malaise as it were IMO wherein because it is not standard it will not be taught. I am not sure how or why it seems to be this way maybe those that are much higher then I can explain it.

The experience is there in the schools for the taking and quite frankly it depends and falls on the individual course officer, WO and the Sect Commanders.  There is time, latitude and the tools to get the required classes on the TP taught and pass on relevant "this is how it is really done" information.  A good Course O can and should tailor the field Exercises to a similar situations that are encountered in Afghanistan.  This gives the soldiers the ability to ensure that they understand the material taught and gives them an ability to see how it applies with real world situations.  It does not have to be exact as SMMT has pointed out, "Afghanistan is A WAR, not THE War.
I don't get PTSD.......I'm a carrier
#8 | Rank: 726 | Cbt Exp: 384,678,577 | Msns: 6,715

Offline RHFC_piper

  • Broken but not beaten
  • Milnet.ca Subscriber
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • 19,707
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 813
  • Defence Not Defiance
Perhaps the issue was in the presentation?

Perhaps. 

All it came down to was the "teach by the book, not how it's done in Afghanistan."

Either way, I just don't argue it anymore... I just do my job.  I just hope the next group going over come back to better reception for training considerations, or the same thing that happened with members of my tour will happen with theirs; disillusionment followed by CTs or voluntary releases... it's hard to go from "how it's done" to "how it's taught" and not become bitter.

But, I digress.  The choice to not teach modern skills comes from much higher than the unit level; if it's not a part of the training plan in accordance with IBTS it doesn't get taught... not officially anyway.  The troops take it upon themselves to learn from those with experience, weather or not its supported by the CoC.

 

 
"Leadership in the Canadian Forces is not the role of one single person; it is the responsibility of all who wear the Canadian Forces uniform."
- Gen. Hillier

Offline Teeps74

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 914
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 360

Not so, most of the Sgts and MCpls from TF3-6 were very quickly posted during the very next APS upon return almost exclusively to the schools (Meaford, Gagetown and Leadership School in Pet) Where from those I have had contact with since have said they are being told whatever your experience is it doesn't count here we teach as per CF standard not "how you did it in Afghanistan"....

Sadly it's an institutional malaise as it were IMO wherein because it is not standard it will not be taught. I am not sure how or why it seems to be this way maybe those that are much higher then I can explain it.

ECRs are necessary to force the system to change (hmmm... Kinda like UCRs).  When you are working on a course, you do have influence on that course. The trick is, is there anyone above you in the chain of command who is filtering information? If there is a change in core soldier skills (fire and movement for infantry) which is based on current ops, the I suggest that this information should and must be pushed up. Believe it or not, CTC and LFDTS are very reasonable organisations, they are just information driven.

For anyone to just summarily dismiss anther's experiences like I read in this thread, that's just plain wrong and idiotic.

EDIT TO ADD: Stuff like the Gun FIghter program are excellent skills... However, to get competant in those skills, we first need the baseline skills, as per current CTPs. If those baseline skills need to be modified, then let the paperwork through standards begin.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2008, 23:24:57 by Teeps74 »
"... to fight and conquer in all your battles
    is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists
    in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting."
- Sun Tzu, The Art of War
#150 | Rank: 47 | Cbt Exp: 116,028 | Msns: 525

Offline Roy Harding

    Away for a while. He's baaack (again).

  • Directing Staff
  • Milnet.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 14,350
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,241
I don't have a dog in this fight.  I'm retired.  AND, I was only briefly an Infantry Soldier (three years - way back in the '70s).  AND, I've only been peripherally involved in cbt ops (Sarajevo '94, Kandahar '02).  BUT, I spent a fair amount of time in the CF, and I'm familiar with the "you don't do it this way in Bn (or Ops), but you'll do it this way while at this school" mentality.

I'll admit that there was a time that this mentality pissed me off, BIG TIME.  But after time, and after exposure to many different environments and situations, it became clear to me that the "school mentality" was meant to instill a baseline competence in ALL people, regardless their particular past (or future) experience.

Having a baseline enabled me to understand what was needed by the organization as a whole, and by virtue of that understanding I was able to deviate from that baseline while still maintaining the essential processes which enabled my little sub-unit, unit, or formation to still "mesh" with the whole.

By having a "baseline understanding", person "A" is able to be a little to the left of that line, person "B" is able to a little to the right of that line, and person "C" is able to comprehend both ways of doing things.  Further - person "B" can relieve person "A" with minimal disruption to ops.

Someone earlier in this thread (I'm too lazy to go back and figure out who) said something to the effect that schools are there to teach about "war", not necessarily about "this war".  And whoever it was is right.

You need to take what you learn about "war" at school, and apply it to "this war" when you're in theatre.  "This war" changes (tactically) from month to month - "war" doesn't change, to any great extent, from generation to generation - that's why Sun Tzu still has lessons for all of us.

Those of you who have been in "this war" and have subsequently been posted to the various schools need to illustrate to your students how learning about "war", as you are instructing it IAW "the regs", applies to "this war".  The object lessons you have to impart are priceless - and will save lives.  The specific tactics that worked for you in "this war" do not necessarily negate the proved baseline tactics that are taught in schools.

By all means - adapt and overcome, but before you can do that you need a "baseline" understanding of what you are doing - that's what schools are there to teach.

I'll go back under my rock now.

I love mankind.  It's people I can't stand.

Linus van Pelt

Online CDN Aviator

  • Milnet.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 122,510
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 14,817
  • BD3D Op
    • Association of Old Crows

Not so, most of the Sgts and MCpls from TF3-6 were very quickly posted during the very next APS upon return almost exclusively to the schools (Meaford, Gagetown and Leadership School in Pet) Where from those I have had contact with since have said they are being told whatever your experience is it doesn't count here we teach as per CF standard not "how you did it in Afghanistan"....


I should have been more specific. This needs to go beyond the schools. We have to send these people to jobs throughout the Trg system, from those who deliver the trg ( schools) to those who design the courses and those who develop the doctrine.
"Ahh..... F**k it....weapon away !!"

"The only difference between peace and war is where we place our bombs" - General Curtis E. LeMay

Offline rifleman

  • Son of Martha
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 31,029
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 286
  • No White Belts - No Pipeclay!
That's a shame really, why bother posting them to the schools if they can't explain how the real world works? They'd be better off at CMTC or just staying at their units.

Having been at a few schools, they are better staying within units. They can use their experience to train those who will be deploying again. Bashing your head against a wall at schools really hurts

Offline Technoviking

  • Milnet.ca Subscriber
  • Milnet.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 119,041
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9,298
I have to dispel a few myths. 

Having not been in combat, I still consider myself a good instructor.  I understand the whole individual training system, and why it works (and why it doesn't work - at times).  You can have an instructor with combat experience who can relate empirical stories about a specific situation, or you can have a competent instructor who can think outside the box and adapt.  To think outside the box, you first have to understand what that box is, how it works, and understand that sometimes inside the box thinking is exactly what is needed.  Just as a one-size fits all approach to kit doesn't work, same with training.  I don't care if you're talking about training for a parade, for battle or for your wedding night. 

All this to say that there are basics.  Earlier, Mission analysis, battle procedure, etc were mentioned.  In my opinion, these are vital tools that MUST be used properly in order to understand what it is you have to do and how to convey that information to your subordinates in a manner that you know that they will understand.  This is the proverbial "box".  Thinking outside the box (eg: turning the BG around and fighting 180 in the opposite direction) is something that can be done quite quickly, but you MUST first understand WHAT you want to do.

It all boils down to paying proper attention to detail.  For riflemen, it may mean watching your arcs, looking for the odd clues that something is amiss.  For a staff officer, it may mean ensuring that you understand your higher commander's intent.  We cannot simply say that we pay attention to detail in garrison, and then throw away that box once the bullets fly.  Let's face it, we are not the first army to go to war, ever.  Our doctrine, manuals, methods of teaching, etc, are all products of men who fought other wars, and these are the tools that helped them.  Some of those tools may need upgrading, and others maybe may need to be cast off, but to throw the whole thing out the window once someone shoots at you?  Nonsense.  We may as well just give our recruits a few hours on learning how to use an automatic rifle and then send them on their way!

We have procedures, and these are baseline, and as always, they can be amended.  As an earlier poster mentioned, they got FRAG Os that were brilliant.  That is awesome.  FRAG O's are also part of our doctrine, which realises that you don't always have the luxury of time to sit down and spend 8 hours on a problem before issuing orders.  Heck, if you only have thirty minutes, you then don't have time for information briefs, wargames, etc.  Fine.  That's why we can do combat estimates.  Spending ten minutes developing a workable plan, relying on drills (another time saver!) will serve you well.  If you "situate the estimate" and come up with a plan without even understanding what your problem is, you are looking for trouble.

So, experience and qualification does not necessarily mean competence.  The mystique of "he's got combat experience" can only go so far.  Pay attention to detail, avoid silliness (eg: all wearing the same kit as though on parade) and be prepared to wisely use that box, or avoid it altogether, but for God's sakes, be competent!  And never be boring!


[/rant]

Offline ArmyRick

  • Milnet.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 14,585
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,661
  • Yeeeeee Haaaaw has deep intellectual meaning!
We do have some of the combat vets here at Meaford and they do a good job of passing on their expiriences. However I find it interesting that when i asked them what we should be doing different and the list is not really that different. Mind you I am talking at the DP1 Infantry level. They do have to learn the basics, end discussion there. However we do try and spice the exercises a little later on in the courses. Yes alot of it depends on how proactive the course staff chooses to be. The LFDATS constraints are not that bad and there is some flexibility room.

Now training in the battalion is a different story.
1. Let your actions be your words
2. Lead by example
3. Always strive for a higher standard
4. Do not caudle the troops, but do not abuse them, treat them, exactly as they need to be treated to make a better soldier and potential leader.
5. The Infantryman is the backbone of any fighting force; his role is to "close with and destroy the enemy".

Offline Haggis

  • "There ain't no hat badge on a helmet!"
  • Milnet.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 20,480
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,837
  • "Oh, what a glorious sight, Warm-reekin, rich!"
Quote
So, experience and qualification does not necessarily mean competence.  The mystique of "he's got combat experience" can only go so far.

Oh, how true!  Book smart is not field smart.

One can also get "combat experience" by blundering into an ambush, not clearing a defile properly or falling asleep on sentry and allowing your position to be attacked.
After 34 years of wearing a military uniform I finally became a member of The Canadian Army.

Offline Technoviking

  • Milnet.ca Subscriber
  • Milnet.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 119,041
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9,298
One can also get "combat experience" by blundering into an ambush, not clearing a defile properly or falling asleep on sentry and allowing your position to be attacked.
If it weren't true, it would be funny.  Sadly, though, it is true.

As I think more of my rant, experience matters, and I hope that I didn't come off the wrong way. It's just that though experience is necessary, it isn't sufficient.

Offline Haggis

  • "There ain't no hat badge on a helmet!"
  • Milnet.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 20,480
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,837
  • "Oh, what a glorious sight, Warm-reekin, rich!"
If it weren't true, it would be funny.  Sadly, though, it is true.

As I think more of my rant, experience matters, and I hope that I didn't come off the wrong way. It's just that though experience is necessary, it isn't sufficient.

In order to be relevant and valuable, experience must also be educational.  Making the same mistake repeatedly (as some are prone to do) is, in the purest form, "experience".  It's just not educational, as this implies that one learns to adapt from the activity.
After 34 years of wearing a military uniform I finally became a member of The Canadian Army.

Offline Greymatters

  • Milnet.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 13,435
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,530
In order to be relevant and valuable, experience must also be educational.  Making the same mistake repeatedly (as some are prone to do) is, in the purest form, "experience".  It's just not educational, as this implies that one learns to adapt from the activity.

Its also an uphill battle convincing the existing instruction staff, and the committee deciding on course content, that their methods and information may be outdated, or that your overseas lesson learned wasnt just a single event context.  That always goes over well...

Online CDN Aviator

  • Milnet.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 122,510
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 14,817
  • BD3D Op
    • Association of Old Crows
Its also an uphill battle convincing the existing instruction staff, and the committee deciding on course content, that their methods and information may be outdated, or that your overseas lesson learned wasnt just a single event context.  That always goes over well...

Thats exactly why combat experience has to permeate throughout the entire system. One simply cannot send vets to the schools only. Other positions such as Staff colleges, Doctrine-writting/developing organizations, DLR, CTS.......etc,etc,etc..... have to be manned with people with the relevant experience. Those positions are not always considered as "desireable" but in the end if recent army experience is to benefit the entire organization, some people are going to have to put their money where their mouth is and take those jobs.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2008, 20:02:27 by CDN Aviator »
"Ahh..... F**k it....weapon away !!"

"The only difference between peace and war is where we place our bombs" - General Curtis E. LeMay

Offline Greymatters

  • Milnet.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 13,435
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,530
Thats exactly why combat experience has to permeate throughout the entire system. One simply cannot send vets to the schools only. Oter positions such as Staff colleges, Doctrine-writting/developing organizations, DLR, CTS.......etc,etc,etc..... have to be manned with people with the relevant experience. Those positions are not always considered as "desireable" but in the end if recent army experience is to benefit the entire organization, some people are going to have to put their money where their mouth is and take those jobs. 

Usually measured in years at the best, a decade or two at the worst...