Topic: Rations, Meal Claims, No Access to Mess Hall, Etc.--Merged

[CDN Aviator]

If you are on Per Diem,why are you bothering with receipts ?

[NFLD Sapper]

Until your OR tells you that little pot of 1/2 a cup of coffee and one meal constitutes "breakfast."

Then you'd be here wouldn't you? 

True but my OR is so switched on that most time I don't even need receipts if I am traveling over a meal hour.

[ArmyVern]

True but my OR is so switched on that most time I don't even need receipts if I am traveling over a meal hour.

Dude ... switched on?? Most of the time you don't need receipts over the meal hour if you're travelling??

Read the below link from DCBA from me ... you'll clearly see that you never need receipts if you are travelling over the meal hour on TD. (Unless, of course, you travelled via some mode of transport which included meals as part of the price, but you found that "meal" insufficient -- then you'd need a receipt for the "meal" you did buy to supplement theirs).

Work on your OR a 'lil bit more ... 

  

[NFLD Sapper]

 

[TN]

Bring your own food...

Collect the MTEC's..

Trucker life for me.... 

[maniac779]

Is there any guidance on what constitutes a meal that can be claimed versus one that can't?

I realize that there is basic criteria of provided for by the crown (Non-claimable) vice not provided for by the crown (generally claimable), but is there any amplification on this?

For example, if you are on TD and the hotel provides breakfast for all its guests, does this count as a provided for meal, and thus not claimable? What if you elected to eat the provided for meal from the hotel? Should you not claim breakfast in this case, as you were not out of pocket any additional funds?

[George Wallace]

While you are on TD, unless you are eating in a Mess, you will be entitled to three meals and incidentals per day.  The person to ask, is the person who does up you Claim and knows exactly where you are being lodged and what you will be entitled to.

[Kirsten Luomala]

Is there any guidance on what constitutes a meal that can be claimed versus one that can't?

I realize that there is basic criteria of provided for by the crown (Non-claimable) vice not provided for by the crown (generally claimable), but is there any amplification on this?

For example, if you are on TD and the hotel provides breakfast for all its guests, does this count as a provided for meal, and thus not claimable? What if you elected to eat the provided for meal from the hotel? Should you not claim breakfast in this case, as you were not out of pocket any additional funds?

In regard to the example provided, if the hotel provides breakfast then you won't get to claim or get advanced for that meal but would still get lunch and dinner claimed or advanced.

[PMedMoe]

In regard to the example provided, if the hotel provides breakfast then you won't get to claim or get advanced for that meal but would still get lunch and dinner claimed or advanced.

Actually, if it doesn't show up on the hotel bill and it's not known that the hotel provides a breakfast, you can indeed claim that meal.  Is it ethical?  I'll leave that up to the individual.  Not to mention, some hotel "breakfasts" are a muffin and a coffee.   

[LineJumper]

Actually, if it doesn't show up on the hotel bill and it's not known that the hotel provides a breakfast, you can indeed claim that meal.  Is it ethical?  I'll leave that up to the individual.  Not to mention, some hotel "breakfasts" are a muffin and a coffee.   

That's only if any muffins or non-decaf coffee is left when you get there

[PMedMoe]

Here's a "for instance".  When I came back from Afghanistan in December, we had an overnight in Köln, Germany.  I didn't think that breakfast was included (looking at the hotel info book in the room, it stated in was €23), so I didn't go to breakfast at the hotel but got something once we arrived at the airport.  Turns out breakfast was included.  Is it wrong of me to claim that meal??

[the 48th regulator]

Does DND fall under the treasury board, in this instance, with regarding travel.  I am not sure, however, this is a good link I use as a Public Service Employee;

http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/pubs_pol/hrpubs/tbm_113/td-dv-eng.asp

In particular;

http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/pubs_pol/hrpubs/tbm_113/td-dv01-eng.asp#Toc190491135


This is stated several times;

A meal allowance shall not be paid to a traveller with respect to a meal that is provided. In exceptional situations where a traveller has incurred out-of-pocket expenses to supplement meals provided, the actual incurred costs may be reimbursed, based on receipts, up to the applicable meal allowance.

You are best to do your due diligence, and ask at check in, because I can bet my bottom dollar there will be someone out there that will come across your claim and nail you if you lie.  Maybe not the first, or second time, but there will be a time.

No sense in burning yourself for a lousy 15 bucks.

dileas

tess

[SGT-RMSCLK]

Meal and mileage rates for DND are set by the Treasury Board.  As stated above, If breakfast is provided by the hotel, you cannot claim it.  However, if you feel that the meal was insufficient, such as a muffin and coffee, you can buy more and, with receipt, claim it up to the maximum TB rate for that meal.  You may also be required to sign a statement to the fact that the provided hotel meal was not acceptable.

[PMedMoe]

The claims section accepted it.  IMHO, it's better than the people who did eat breakfast and still claimed the meal.

[the 48th regulator]

The claims section accepted it.  IMHO, it's better than the people who did eat breakfast and still claimed the meal.

How much were you compensated, if you do not mind me asking?

dileas

tess

[PMedMoe]

How much were you compensated, if you do not mind me asking?

The normal meal rate, whatever that is. 

At any rate, this is getting slightly off topic.

[the 48th regulator]

The normal meal rate, whatever that is. 

At any rate, this is getting slightly off topic.

Oh no, no it's not.

Your in the medical field, How much does a field bandage cost?

Maybe Vern, can help, but what about one single Nato 5.56 round, a Battery for a radio, a litre of Chopper fuel....

I may be using the old "If a butterfly flaps it's wing" analogy, however, there is a reason to look at not scamming the system in that sense.

dileas

tess

[exgunnertdo]

2 more "for instances", both from our last move (administered by IRP, but still TB policy)

Our hotel included breakfast.  On the morning of our load, we were told to be at the house by 0800 to meet the truck.  We left our hotel room in plenty of time to have a reasonable breakfast with our two small children in the hotel breakfast room.  Just before we got there, an entire bus tour's worth of people had just sat down to eat - the place was packed, not a seat in the place.  We could wait for probably 20-30 minutes for a table to open up, and be late for our timing at the house, or drive through McDonald's, and eat sitting among the boxes in our already packed kitchen.  We did McD's, saved the receipts and it was allowed.  Mind you, the truck didn't show until nearly 11, but we were there by 0800, as instructed.

Hotel at destination - provided breakfast for one person per room.  Government rate, it's based on a business traveller, not a family.  We had two rooms, so two breakfasts, for our family of 4.  But the restaurant was not in any way kid friendly.  Full of business type folks, quietly reading their paper, working on laptops.  My kids were wired after a week of upheaval, excited cause we were getting to our new house, and I really didn't feel like spending the whole meal of time shushing them.   So we went somewhere else and said to ourselves that we would be fine if the IPR rep denied the meal.  She allowed it, with the receipt.

[the 48th regulator]

2 more "for instances", both from our last move (administered by IRP, but still TB policy)

Our hotel included breakfast.  On the morning of our load, we were told to be at the house by 0800 to meet the truck.  We left our hotel room in plenty of time to have a reasonable breakfast with our two small children in the hotel breakfast room.  Just before we got there, an entire bus tour's worth of people had just sat down to eat - the place was packed, not a seat in the place.  We could wait for probably 20-30 minutes for a table to open up, and be late for our timing at the house, or drive through McDonald's, and eat sitting among the boxes in our already packed kitchen.  We did McD's, saved the receipts and it was allowed.  Mind you, the truck didn't show until nearly 11, but we were there by 0800, as instructed.

Hotel at destination - provided breakfast for one person per room.  Government rate, it's based on a business traveller, not a family.  We had two rooms, so two breakfasts, for our family of 4.  But the restaurant was not in any way kid friendly.  Full of business type folks, quietly reading their paper, working on laptops.  My kids were wired after a week of upheaval, excited cause we were getting to our new house, and I really didn't feel like spending the whole meal of time shushing them.   So we went somewhere else and said to ourselves that we would be fine if the IPR rep denied the meal.  She allowed it, with the receipt.

Meal and mileage rates for DND are set by the Treasury Board.  As stated above, If breakfast is provided by the hotel, you cannot claim it.  However, if you feel that the meal was insufficient, such as a muffin and coffee, you can buy more and, with receipt, claim it up to the maximum TB rate for that meal.  You may also be required to sign a statement to the fact that the provided hotel meal was not acceptable.

You made an effort, and did your due diligence, wouldn't you agree?  Had you been asked ,you would have been able to provide a reasonable statement, explaining the challenges.

Saying I did not know it was included, and I heard that it gave people a tummy ache, won't get you off;  That is what my point is through out the thread.

dileas

tess

[PMedMoe]

I may be using the old "If a butterfly flaps it's wing" analogy, however, there is a reason to look at not scamming the system in that sense.

I never said anything about "scamming" the system.  I'll thank you for not putting words in my mouth.  It was an honest mistake and the claims section accepted it.  I got the full meal rate (not sure what the amount for breakfast is - $15.00?).  The people who ate breakfast at the hotel and claimed it are scamming the system., IMO.

[the 48th regulator]

I never said anything about "scamming" the system.  I'll thank you for not putting words in my mouth.  It was an honest mistake and the claims section accepted it.  I got the full meal rate (not sure what the amount for breakfast is - $15.00?).  The people who ate breakfast at the hotel and claimed it are scamming the system., IMO.

 

I am not putting words in your mouth, they are my own.  I am standing here pointing at you with an accusatory (Dang Moe, can you imagine me saying such a big word...) finger.  You were allowed the claim because the claims people believed that you used your best judgment when you were spending Crown money.  Those people that ate and did the same as you are just as guilty.  It may seem a like a trivial point, and yes it may seem like an honest mistake.  However, it is not acceptable, nor is it legal in the sense of the Treasury Board.




Moe, I am not "Picking" on you, but with the way that DND is slashing left, right, and centre, every dollar counts.  You passing the buck by saying that it was an honest mistake, and passing the blame to the claims people since they approved it, does not wash.  This is not something we should be promoting.

I still dig you though 

dileas

tess

[captloadie]

In the OP example, just because it doesn't say so on the receipt doesn't mean it isn't included. Hotels often bury the cost of the breakfast in the nightly charge. The hotel in Koln, as it is with many European hotels, was a good example of how they have 2 different rates, one that includes breakfast and one that doesn't. They often don't indicate it on the receipt.

From a financial perspective, units will often try to book members into hotels that include breakfast it is normally cheaper than paying a night at a hotel and a separate breakfast. In Canada, breakfast entitlement is $13.50 I believe, no receipt required, but in many European cities, if it is not by receipt, it is much more (15-20 Euros).

As an exfin guy, I never had a heart ache when someone brought in a receipt for a meal,  because he incurred a cost. It really burned me thoguh when guys did their best to screw the system and just pocket the cash.

   

[PMedMoe]

I am not putting words in your mouth, they are my own.  I am standing here pointing at you with an accusatory (Dang Moe, can you imagine me saying such a big word...) finger.

Good enough, and no, I can't.  Did you eat a bowl of alphabet soup?   

Those people that ate and did the same as you are just as guilty.

I beg to differ.  I think they're guiltier (more guilty?) as they claimed for a meal they had already received, whereas I claimed for a meal that I had to purchase.

However, it is not acceptable, nor is it legal in the sense of the Treasury Board.

Oh please, let's not even go there.  Go check out the IR thread and see how much a public servant gets for rent compared to those of us in the CF.  What about all the politicians having their weekend travel home compensated for?  What about the RCMP who get high rate of mileage on their moves where we only get the low rate?  If you want to point accusatory fingers, why isn't everyone the same across the board if all of this is based on the Treasury Board??

This is not something we should be promoting.

I agree.  Really, my situation is quite minor compared to others who have frauded the government out of thousands of dollars and gotten away with it.  People who claim they drove for LTA and get XXX amount of dollars when in reality, they flew for less than half of what they received, comes to mind.   

I still dig you though 

I dig you, too, tess.      

[ballz]

People who claim they drove for LTA and get XXX amount of dollars when in reality, they flew

** I never thought of that! Can't wait till next xmas (my next of kin live on other side of the country...) Oh army.ca you've taught me so many great lessons.

I kid, I kid... I never thought of that scheme but I have noticed other possible ones. I'm not sure how people can live with that. People die in this business because of a lack of funds...

[Zoomie]

   Go check out the IR thread and see how much a public servant gets for rent compared to those of us in the CF.  What about all the politicians having their weekend travel home compensated for?  What about the RCMP who get high rate of mileage on their moves where we only get the low rate? 

Unless those public servants are governed under a different TB - the rental allowance for IR is the same in the CF.  Max allowable is $1090/month.

RegF members can have mileage compensated too - just needs to be organized.

RCMP and CF members have the exact same move package.  CF members get high rate for moving.

I spend quite a few days on the road on TD with my students.  We book our hotels and some of them provide a full breakfast.  The cost of a hotel that provides a breakfast and one that does not is not a huge difference.  If my students feel that they were adequately nourished by their meal, no claim is made for the breakfast.  When we stay in Calgary, we stop at Timmies on the way to the FBO - get our stuff and move on.  Claim is made for full breakfast amount - no receipts required.  Even if the hotel provides a full breakfast au gratis - if we decide that we are going somewhere else - we claim.  There is not a directive anywhere that states we must eat the provided food.