Author Topic: Bosnia and Kosovo: More Pomeranian grenadiers needed as peacekeepers?  (Read 16718 times)

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Offline Zip

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Re: Bosnia and Kosovo: More Pomeranian grenadiers needed as peacekeepers?
« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2007, 15:10:23 »
Shhhh, don't try to distract the world from the evils of what "Amerikkka" is doing in Afghanistan and Iraq to point out the looming ethnic meltdown in the backyard of the peoples States of Europe.
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Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: Bosnia and Kosovo: More Pomeranian grenadiers needed as peacekeepers?
« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2007, 16:36:41 »
Brits getting ready:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,2219593,00.html

Quote
Britain yesterday offered to be the first Nato country to send extra troops to Kosovo within weeks, as the Conservatives and Balkan experts warned of a potentially violent crisis brewing.

While David Cameron accused the Kremlin of stirring up trouble in the Balkans and warned of a new crisis by Christmas, Gordon Brown's government also risked Russian wrath by issuing a robust statement of support for quick Kosovan independence.

Lord Ashdown, the former international governor of Bosnia, accused the Russians and the Serbian government of fomenting trouble in Bosnia and Kosovo, and demanded troops reinforcements to try to keep the peace. "Unless we get a grip on this situation very fast, the issue of the Balkans will be back on our agenda with a vengeance," Ashdown told the BBC

Amid a growing sense of foreboding after the collapse of two years of negotiations between the Serb and Kosovo Albanian leaderships over the future of the contested Balkan province, the Foreign Office signalled strong support for a breakaway Kosovo.

"Long-term European stability and security demand a viable status settlement for Kosovo without delay," a spokesman said, voicing support for the supervised independence proposed by the UN envoy, Martti Ahtisaari. If more peacekeepers were needed in Kosovo, Britain would be the first to send extra forces, he said [emphasis added]....

British diplomats indicated that any call for extra troops should first come from Nato commanders on the ground.

Mark
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Re: Bosnia and Kosovo: More Pomeranian grenadiers needed as peacekeepers?
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2007, 15:53:10 »
Rest o' NATO too...

Troops in Kosovo placed on heightened alert
Territory moving toward independence

Associated Press (US), 5 Dec 07
Article link
Quote
NATO's chief said Tuesday that his forces are prepared to respond to violence in coming weeks as the breakaway territory of Serbia prepares to assert its independence.  Gen. John Craddock said that plans include the possibility of quickly boosting the 16,000 NATO troops currently in Kosovo.  "I think that there will be those who want to create mischief and that will be manifested as strife, potentially violence in Kosovo," Craddock told reporters at the National Press Club.  The comments come as talks between leaders from Kosovo and Serbia appear stalled ahead of a Dec. 10 deadline to report to the United Nations. Although the southern province formally remains part of Serbia, Kosovo has been run by the U.N. and NATO since 1999, when the Western military alliance ended former Yugoslav leader Slobodan Milosevic's crackdown on ethnic Albanian separatists.  Ethnic Albanians, who make up 90 percent of Kosovo's 2 million people, insist on independence. Serbia has offered broad autonomy but insists the southern province remain part of its territory.  Leaders in Kosovo have said that they will soon declare their independence.  Reflecting the degree of concern for an organization that is also responsible for leading military operations against the insurgency by the Taliban and other groups in Afghanistan, Craddock called Kosovo "the most volatile issue confronting NATO today."  Craddock said that he believes pledges by Kosovo's leaders that they will work to prevent violence. He said that NATO will be prepared to work with police in Kosovo to shut down any paramilitary group that tried to assert authority in the territory ....
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Offline retiredgrunt45

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Re: Bosnia and Kosovo: More Pomeranian grenadiers needed as peacekeepers?
« Reply #28 on: December 06, 2007, 23:56:49 »
Quote
I agree.

It is time for Europe, broadly, to stand up for itself. This is a serious problem within Europe and big, rich, sophisticated Europe must be up to the challenge or it must collapse into a pile of stinky brown stuff.

There is no reason for anyone in North America to do anthing except shake their heads in dismay and, maybe, smile behind their hands.

+10 Mr. Campbell, as usual very well said and if I may add, the point of the "brown stinky stuff", well that put the icing on the cake. thank you. ;D
« Last Edit: December 07, 2007, 00:00:10 by retiredgrunt45 »
The first goal of any political party is to stay in power by whatever means possible. Their second goal is to fool us into believing that we should keep them in power.

A politician is like a used car saleman, he'll promise you a "peach" and then turn around and sell you a "lemon"

"Politicians are like diapers, they have to be changed often because their usually full of crap.

Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: Bosnia and Kosovo: More Pomeranian grenadiers needed as peacekeepers?
« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2007, 08:25:22 »
NATO trying to cool Kosovars' jets:
http://english.pravda.ru/news/world/07-12-2007/102457-nato_kosovo-0

Quote
NATO peacekeeping forces should be ready for handling violence in Kosovo, as province’s leaders seem to fight for their independence after a failure of negotiations.

"We will act resolutely against anyone who seeks to resort to violence," said alliance Secretary-General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer as he opened the meeting of the 26 NATO nations.

The meeting sent a veiled message to Kosovo's ethnic-Albanian majority not to make a sudden declaration of independence after an expected acknowledgment by mediators from Russia, Europe and the United States that efforts to find a negotiated settlement have reached a dead end.

Instead of declaring unilateral independence, NATO spokesman James Appathurai urged a "managed and controlled" transition to decide the final status of the breakaway province.

The United States and leading European allies are hoping to revive a plan - rejected by Serbia and its Russian backers - for a gradual, supervised move to statehood. Others - notably Spain, Romania, Slovakia and Greece - are more cautious, fearing that Kosovo independence with agreement from Serbia could encourage separatist movements in other regions.

Despite the lack of agreement on Kosovo's final status, the allies agreed that NATO's 16,450 peacekeeping troops could continue their mission under the current U.N. mandate.

A battalion of German troops has already been sent to Kosovo to strengthen the force, and British, Italian and French units are being held in reserve, ready to move in if there is a new flare-up of violence [emphasis added].

Talks to establish a united Western position on Kosovo's future are expected to continue in the margins of an European Union-Africa summit in Lisbon this weekend and at the bloc's regular year-end summit next week.

British Foreign Secretary David Miliband said it was essential that Western countries avoid the divisions that prevented them from taking decisive action to halt Balkan bloodshed in the 1990s.

"I believe that we can achieve a strong degree of unity on the question of Kosovo," he told reporters on arrival at NATO headquarters.

Kosovo has been run by the United Nations, backed by NATO troops, since 1999 when a bombing campaign by allied warplanes ended a Serb crackdown on the separatists...

As for the Serbs:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article3013628.ece

Quote
The prospect of a new Balkans conflict came closer last night after Serbia made threats of “war” with the breakaway province of Kosovo.

After a four-month peace initiative failed to resolve the fate of the disputed territory, European diplomats, and even the Pope, made fresh appeals for Serbs and Albanians to avoid violence.

Nato foreign ministers will meet in Brussels today [see above] to discuss contingency measures should violence flare.

Concerns grew after Aleksandar Simic, adviser to Vojislav Kostunica, the Serbian Prime Minister, said that his country would defend its sovereignty “using all means” at its disposal.
Related Links

“The State has no recourse other than war when someone does not respect the UN Security Council,” he told Serbian state television...

Mark
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« Last Edit: December 07, 2007, 08:37:02 by MarkOttawa »
Ça explique, mais ça n'excuse pas.

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Re: Bosnia and Kosovo: More Pomeranian grenadiers needed as peacekeepers?
« Reply #30 on: December 08, 2007, 15:42:29 »
More on NATO preparations:
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/12/07/europe/kosovo.php

Quote
SKENDERAJ, Kosovo: NATO commanders in Kosovo say they are ready to shut down any violence in the wake of the province's expected secession from Serbia. The scorched frescoes and shattered roof tiles at the Serbian Orthodox monastery of St. Joanikije testify to how difficult that task might be.

It was less than four years ago that the drowning deaths of three Albanian boys sparked rioting against Serbs that ended with 19 people dead and more than 30 churches and monasteries across Kosovo destroyed or damaged. Attackers torched St. Joanikije just outside Skenderaj, despite the presence there of NATO peacekeepers.

On Monday mediators will officially report what has been clear for some time, that they have reached a dead end in their negotiations with Serbia and Kosovo. After that the United Nations Security Council will meet to discuss the matter, and Kosovar's leaders will decide the timing of the province's declaration of independence from Serbia.

During these weeks, a tense calm is expected unless a few troublemakers on either side spark an incident, especially in isolated ethnic enclaves and religious sites like the monastery.

For all the dry diplomatic language of resolutions and declarations, it is bloodshed that people most fear. In the worst-case scenarios trouble begins in Kosovo and spreads like a contagion among the overlapping ethnic groups and across the fresh and often permeable borders in the former Yugoslavia.

NATO has about 16,500 troops on the ground, slightly fewer than it had during the out-of-control riots in March 2004. And the endgame in Kosovo's drive for independence comes at a time when a distracted and overstretched American military, which still has a contingent in Kosovo as well, is fighting wars in Iraq and Afghanistan...[US linking Afstan and Kosovo--see this link]
http://www.reuters.com/article/asiaCrisis/idUSL21566421

It is the German national flag and the Bavarian state flag that fly over the small encampment of NATO soldiers guarding the St. Joanikije monastery, now half rebuilt. The Bavaria-based troops are mountain specialists, wearing distinctive gray caps with pins of the edelweiss flower on the side.

Germany has a longstanding contingent in the south of the country. This battalion is one of several reserve forces that NATO can call in within one to two weeks in the event of trouble. Technically they are only in Kosovo for regular training, but the timing was apt [emphasis added], overlapping with both a recent election and the negotiating deadline.

For now, the German soldiers are under the command of NATO's French-led northern task force and have been fortifying the defenses at the monastery. Bright new barbed wire is spooled up and down the hills surrounding the monastery. The Germans say that after the drownings in 2004 Albanians with Molotov cocktails climbed around French defenders guarding the front gates from a large mob to set the complex ablaze.

Officers say they have learned the lessons of 2004 and are ready now.

"The French had only the option to open fire or to retreat," said Captain Andre Zuehlsdorf, the commander of the company of German soldiers that includes the platoon now stationed at St. Joanikije. In contrast, his soldiers have tear-gas grenades and riot gear - and the training to use it.

"I have seen much of the training, and I would not like to try to get past these guys," said Colonel Niels Tonning, deputy commander of the task force responsible for the area. Perhaps most important, troops will not have to wait for orders from the NATO Joint Force Command in Naples. "The decision to use tear gas will not be made in Naples. It will be made in Mitrovica,"  [emphasis added--and beyond tear gas?]Tonning said, referring to a Kosovar city by the Ibar River that is divided into ethnic enclaves...

And that is five minutes by car to the Serbian monastery, where by legend St. Joanikije brought forth fresh water from stones through prayer. Mother Superior Anastacia, the leader of the six nuns remaining there, said that during the rampage icons had been thrown into the well and the monastery's two bells had disappeared.

"This monastery was always offering a comfort of healing, not only for Christians but for Muslims as well," said Mother Superior Anastacia.

"We would stay here in any case," the nun said, "but we believe for a long period that we cannot live here without any military presence."

The northern task force is committed to protecting the site. But the German battalion that has guarded it for the past two weeks will probably - assuming no flare-ups have occurred - be home from its rotation in time for Christmas [emphasis here], before independence is declared.

A lengthy piece on how things are seen in Serbia is here:
http://199.246.67.249/servlet/ArticleNews/PEstory/LAC/20071208/DOUG08/Columnists/commentColumnists/commentColumnists/1/1/6/

And twisting and turning in terms of the UN:
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=e538c0c7-2274-486b-b22e-7366d9495830&p=1

Quote
NATO nations pledged yesterday to provide enough troops to put down any violence as Kosovo heads towards a declaration of independence from Serbia, expected within weeks.

Britain, France, Germany and Italy urged fellow EU states in a letter to accept that negotiations on Kosovo's future had been exhausted and that the time had come to settle its status -- without United Nations backing, if necessary.

In a separate move that drew immediate fire from Russia, NATO countries agreed that their 16,000 KFOR peacekeepers could stay in Kosovo on the basis of their existing UN mandate, even after independence.

"KFOR shall remain in Kosovo on the basis of UN Security Council resolution 1244, unless the Security Council decides otherwise [emphasis added]," NATO ministers said in a final communiqué...

The agreement that UN Security Council resolution 1244 can justify NATO's presence in Kosovo even after independence is crucial, as several nations such as Germany had harboured doubts over whether it could continue to apply.

UN Security Council veto-holder Russia has not made clear whether it will challenge such an application of the resolution. But Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov slammed it as potentially undermining basic standards of international law...

This is from Resolution 1244 [pdf]:
http://www.cfr.org/content/publications/attachments/1244.pdf

Quote
19. [The Security Council] Decides that the international civil and security presences are established for an initial period of 12 months, to continue thereafter unless the Security Council decides otherwise;

So the NATO interpretation appears literally correct. However staying on if Kosovo declares an independence not authorized by the UNSC seems a very dicey way to go to me. Just like the 1999 NATO attack itself on Serbia, also not UNSC-authorized.

Mark
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« Last Edit: December 08, 2007, 18:23:20 by MarkOttawa »
Ça explique, mais ça n'excuse pas.

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Re: Bosnia and Kosovo: More Pomeranian grenadiers needed as peacekeepers?
« Reply #31 on: December 08, 2007, 20:57:02 »
A sensible thought from British General (ret'd) Sir Mike Jackson who commanded KFOR and was Chief of the General Staff:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2007/12/09/do0906.xml

Quote
My last - somewhat heretical - thought is that perhaps the international community's aversion to boundary change should be re-examined in this case. The largest concentration of Kosovo Serbs live north of the River Ibar, adjacent to Serbia proper. This small area was transferred from Serbia to Kosovo only 40 years ago. A restoration might have merit...

But what then of the Republika Srpska in Bosnia?
http://www.maplandia.com/bosnia-and-herzegovina/republika-srpska/
http://www.virtualtourist.com/travel/Europe/Bosnia_and_Herzegovina/Republika_Srpska/TravelGuide-Republika_Srpska.html

Mark
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Offline Zip

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Re: Bosnia and Kosovo: More Pomeranian grenadiers needed as peacekeepers?
« Reply #32 on: December 09, 2007, 12:03:36 »
Don't forget that the Serbs consider Kosova Polje (the field of crows) as the birthplace of Serbia. 

Never underestimate the power of popular myth to make people irrational. :threat: 

Especially in that part of the world! :o
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fraserdw

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Re: Bosnia and Kosovo: More Pomeranian grenadiers needed as peacekeepers?
« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2007, 15:44:00 »
We should never involve ourselves in continental affairs again.  Let Europa sort it out. 

fraserdw

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Re: Bosnia and Kosovo: More Pomeranian grenadiers needed as peacekeepers?
« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2007, 17:16:28 »
No offense, my comment was intended to state that we have been cleaning up Euro-crap since 1914.  It is time the the height of civilisation put it's house in order so we can help the developing world put it's house in order.  Our future national success is in Asia and Africa in this century not in Europe, Europeans have the treasure and the people to fix their own problems and that should finally be made clear to them.

fraserdw

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Re: Bosnia and Kosovo: More Pomeranian grenadiers needed as peacekeepers?
« Reply #35 on: December 13, 2007, 10:45:23 »
Well I am not much of fan of Europe, as I am a Canadian Nationalist and an anti royalist.  My feeling is they can solve their own problems alone AND contribute to the mess the they made in Asia and Africa.  I, especially, feel that the French, Belgians, Dutch, Germans, British, Spanish and Portgeuse (SIC!) MUST do this as they are the former colonial powers who brought all this enlightenment to the third world in the 19th century.  The US and the Russians, same again, as they were the 20th Century colonial powers.  In short, if your dog goes on the neighbour's lawn you are responsible for the mess until it is put right.

Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: Bosnia and Kosovo: More Pomeranian grenadiers needed as peacekeepers?
« Reply #36 on: December 15, 2007, 15:22:58 »
EU preparations (if only they'd do the same for Afstan):
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/14/AR2007121401842.html

Quote
European Union leaders on Friday pledged 1,800 police and administrative officials to Kosovo, part of a package of aid and diplomacy intended to facilitate a well-choreographed, quick and peaceful march to independence for the breakaway Serbian province.

The E.U. government heads, meeting at a summit in Brussels, stopped short of pledging to recognize Kosovo if its leaders declare independence, fearing that such a declaration and an endorsement by the 27-nation bloc could provoke a nationalist backlash in Serbia ahead of elections early next year. Some analysts have warned that ethnic violence might resume.

But signaling their aim to exert European influence over the independence process, they announced plans to send the 1,800 personnel to the province in the near future. In addition, some E.U. leaders held out the possibility that Serbia could be awarded a fast-track membership path into the European Union if it is more accommodating on Kosovo.

"Kosovo's independence is inevitable," French President Nicolas Sarkozy told reporters after the summit. "It's an issue for Europe to sort out."

Serbian Prime Minister Vojislav Kostunica threw water on the whole idea. "It is unacceptable to speak of Kosovo, a province of Serbia, as a future state," he said in a statement Friday, according to the Reuters news agency. "It is especially insulting to offer to a crippled Serbia a reward of fast track to the E.U. in exchange for its consent to violence."..

At the same time, several E.U. members -- most notably Cyprus, but to lesser degrees Greece, Slovakia, Romania and Spain -- are concerned that backing independence in Kosovo, without a U.N. Security Council resolution supporting it, could set a dangerous precedent for other secessionist movements [emphasis added--e.g. Republika Srpska).

The E.U. has been eager to show that it can muster the political will and military and economic resources to avert another conflict in the Balkans. Facing a certain Russian veto over Kosovo independence in the Security Council, the E.U. has been struggling to reach consensus on an alternative course...

Analysts expect Thaci [incoming Kosovo PM] to announce in January or February that Kosovo will declare independence later in the year, perhaps in May [emphasis added], allowing time to lay the ground for security measures and the adoption of constitutional and other governmental changes. The United States, European nations and other countries reportedly are prepared to announce their support for Kosovo's independence as soon as Thaci makes his announcement.

Serbia has scheduled presidential elections for Jan. 20, with a runoff on Feb. 3 if there is no clear winner. Western officials hope Thaci's announcement will not come before those dates, fearing it could energize Serbian nationalist sentiments. They say they hope the prospect of E.U. membership will bolster the fortunes of moderate candidates.

Mark
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Ça explique, mais ça n'excuse pas.

fraserdw

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Re: Bosnia and Kosovo: More Pomeranian grenadiers needed as peacekeepers?
« Reply #37 on: December 15, 2007, 15:40:55 »
Roger that, but it was just announced by the EU that Serb EU membership is on hold and independence is not an option right now.  Personally, independence is only likely to prime the powder keg, we are better off with a Cyprus type solution except without the topless Swede tourists on the sunny beaches!!!!  Topless Serb grannies on the river side maybe......??????

Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: Bosnia and Kosovo: More Pomeranian grenadiers needed as peacekeepers?
« Reply #38 on: December 20, 2007, 16:55:57 »
UNSC gives up:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/20/world/europe/20nations.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper&oref=slogin

Quote
The Security Council signaled Wednesday that it would not be able to resolve the status of Kosovo, the breakaway Serbian province, and that a solution would have to come from outside the United Nations.

John Sawers, the British ambassador, emerged from a closed Council meeting to say that what he had heard inside from Vojislav Kostunica, the Serbian prime minister, and Fatmir Sejdiu, the president of Kosovo, “underlined just how enormous the gulf is between the two parties.”

Zalmay Khalilzad, the American ambassador, said that the two had “irreconcilable differences” and that the time had come to proceed with granting Kosovo the independence it has sought but Serbia has resisted.

“The continuation of the status quo poses not only a threat to peace and stability in Kosovo but also to the region and in Europe,” Mr. Khalilzad said.

Mr. Sawers said the European Union would proceed based on the plan for “supervised independence” with protections for the Serbian minority developed by Martti Ahtisaari, the United Nations envoy, and sent to the Council in March. Serbia and Russia, its ally on the Council, had rejected that plan because it led to independence for Kosovo.

The dispute has pitted the principles of sovereignty and self-determination against each other and produced a stand-off between Serbia, backed vigorously by Russia, and Kosovo, supported by the United States and the European Union...

Leaders of Kosovo’s 1.8 million ethnic Albanians have said they will declare their independence only in coordination with the United States and Europe, both of whom have counseled against abrupt action. Mr. D’Alema said he believed that the declaration would be made in March [emphasis added]. Kosovo, a province of Serbia with a population that is 90 percent ethnic Albanian, has been administered by the United Nations since 1999, when an American-led NATO bombing campaign ended Serbian repression of the Albanian majority...

Mark
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Ça explique, mais ça n'excuse pas.

fraserdw

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Re: Bosnia and Kosovo: More Pomeranian grenadiers needed as peacekeepers?
« Reply #39 on: December 23, 2007, 17:46:09 »
Fools!  The UN or the EU and especially NATO should not be in the business of "liberating Tribes" within National Borders.  Now we just spread the misery and add more seats at the UN General Assembly.  Which nation will enter into a defense pact with the new nation ....against a defense pact of Serbia and Russia.  Here comes the cold war and MAD and basement bomb shelters again!

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Re: Bosnia and Kosovo: More Pomeranian grenadiers needed as peacekeepers?
« Reply #40 on: February 17, 2008, 05:22:39 »
It appears more than JUST the Pomeranians are getting edgy this weekend...

Nationalists rally in Belgrade against Kosovo independence, Associated Press, 16 Feb 08:  "Hundreds of Serb nationalists staged a noisy rally Saturday in downtown Belgrade to protest Western support for Kosovo's bid for independence.  Some 1,000 protesters waved the Serbian flag and chanted "Kosovo is the heart of Serbia" outside the embassy of Slovenia, which holds the rotating EU presidency.  A cordon of police ringed the embassy and a dozen vans filled with riot police were parked on side streets around the embassy and the capital's only mosque. No incidents were reported ...."

British troops ready to be deployed to Kosovo before independence, Kuwait News Agency, 16 Feb 08:  "British troops were ready to head to Kosovo after violence erupted there before the independence of the region which would be announced tomorrow (Sunday).  A spokesman for the Defense Ministry stated that about 600 soldiers from the First Welsh Battalion would head to Kosovo if violence did not cease, adding that the troops would join 15,000 NATO troops there which is under the leadership of Kosovo Force (KFOR).  He indicated that military officials saw that the number of current troops deployed in Kosovo did not meet with current situation, affirming that the UK was committed to the peace and security of the Balkan region.  The situation in Kosovo required NATO to be more flexible to meet challenges posed by the violence amid the announcement of independence, indicated the spokesman ...."

EU nations approve policing mission for Kosovo, Constant Brand, ASSOCIATED PRESS, 16 Feb 08:  "A day before Kosovo is expected to declare independence, European Union nations agreed Saturday to send a 1,800-strong mission to Kosovo to help the fledgling state build its police force and judiciary.  The mission will include 700 police officers, as well as judges, prosecutors and other legal experts, to help the ethnic Albanian leadership with security, legal and customs issues after Kosovo breaks away from Serbia ...."

US will work to prevent Kosovo backlash, JENNIFER LOVEN, Associated Press, 17 Feb 08:  "President Bush said Sunday that the U.S will work with its allies to try to prevent violent clashes after the anticipated declaration of independence by Kosovo.  Kosovo is expected to declare its independence from Serbia on Sunday, a move that has outraged Serbia and its ally Russia, which has warned it would set a dangerous precedent for separatist groups worldwide.  "The United States will continue to work with our allies to the very best we can to make sure there's no violence," Bush said in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, during his five-nation tour of Africa.  "We are heartened by the fact that the Kosovo government has clearly proclaimed its willingness and its desire to support Serbian rights in Kosovo," he said.... "

KFOR's Who's Who (as of 4 Feb 08) - "Placemat" With Who's Where (.pdf)
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Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: Bosnia and Kosovo: More Pomeranian grenadiers needed as peacekeepers?
« Reply #41 on: February 18, 2008, 15:30:26 »
A guest-post at Daimnation!:

Kosovo(a?): Putting our government in a pickle
http://www.damianpenny.com/archived/010873.html

Mark
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Re: Bosnia and Kosovo: More Pomeranian grenadiers needed as peacekeepers?
« Reply #42 on: February 18, 2008, 15:46:08 »
Damned if you do, damned if you don't....
Mr Duceppe feels this is great & that we should recognize their right to seceed from the Serbian federation....
which translates to... it should be OK for Quebec to seceed and, should they ever do it, all the other countries around the world should say "that's OK" and rush to recognize the new independant state.  The fact that conditions in Kosovo are very different from what fellow Quebeckers have to live with seems to have been completely overlooked.

Mr Dion feels there is nothing wrong with recognizing Kossovo independance..... shouldn't he think before he speaks?
Chimo!

I have been turned into a ferret by the resident witch!!
And back again..... what a ride!

Offline Yrys

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Re: Bosnia and Kosovo: More Pomeranian grenadiers needed as peacekeepers?
« Reply #43 on: February 18, 2008, 15:50:42 »
Mr Duceppe feels this is great & that we should recognize their right to seceed from the Serbian federation

Yep, but he don't tell often that if Quebec ever get independent, he would not  recognize any part of Quebec
 who would want to go back to Canada, as some aborigenals or West Islanders sotimes say they will want...

He never explain correctly why he has a double standard....
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Offline geo

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Re: Bosnia and Kosovo: More Pomeranian grenadiers needed as peacekeepers?
« Reply #44 on: February 18, 2008, 18:14:26 »
Ahhh... that's why he wears a hairnet.
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Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: Bosnia and Kosovo: More Pomeranian grenadiers needed as peacekeepers?
« Reply #45 on: February 19, 2008, 17:12:33 »
The Consequences of Kosovo
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/18/AR2008021801545.html
Quote
...
In fact, watching the crowds celebrate Saturday night in the streets of Pristina, I wondered there isn't a deeper lesson here for other would-be neighborhood bullies. Milosevic's stated goal was, after all, the greater glory of Serbia (he had other, unstated goals as well, such as the perpetuation of a communist-era power structure; but never mind). Spouting Serbian nationalism, he helped turned Serb minorities across Yugoslavia into mini-militias. They, in turn, inspired the creation of other mini-militias -- Croatian, Bosnian, Albanian and others -- which began fighting one another in a series of small, nasty wars.

You can fairly accuse me here of oversimplifying this chronology, but I think it is nevertheless correct to say that the result of this activity -- discrimination, ethnic cleansing, warfare -- was a complete disaster for Serbia. The Serbian economy went down the tubes; the Serb dominance of ex-Yugoslavia evaporated; Belgrade, the Serb capital, was bombed. Now Serbia looks set to be dismembered as well: Some European countries and the United States have recognized Kosovo's independence, something that wouldn't have happened two decades ago. Milosevic the super-nationalist -- the would-be leader of a revived, powerful, successful Serbia -- damaged no country nearly so much as he damaged Serbia itself.

Keep that lesson in mind over the next few months as others in Europe -- and possibly elsewhere -- attempt to use the Kosovo example as a precedent. After all, if the Albanians can be independent from Serbia, the Abkhazians and South Ossetians would like to be independent from Georgia, the Basques and the Catalonians don't see why they shouldn't be independent from Spain, and who knows what could happen in Cyprus.

In some of these cases, there are other, larger neighbors that might be interested in facilitating the split, just as Serbia was keen to encourage ethnic Serbs in Bosnia or Croatia. Most notably, and most notoriously, the Russians have made ominous noises and dropped dark hints about those Georgian separatist groups, and one can certainly see their logic. What a perfect way to take revenge on those difficult, NATO-loving Georgians: Encourage Georgia's ethnic minorities to launch civil war. Besides, the timing could hardly be better. In the waning days of the Bush administration, is Abkhazia anybody's central concern? During the most interesting U.S. presidential campaign in decades, is anyone going to spare a thought for South Ossetia?

Except that if Abkhazia and South Ossetia were to secede, and civil war in Georgia were to follow, the Russians would then have a failed state on their borders. And, as we know from Yugoslavia, the Middle East and Africa, ethnic and religious civil wars have a nasty way of spreading to their neighbors. Chaos in Georgia might be in the short-term interest of a small group of Putinites, desperate to raise the specter of warfare, annoy the West, and cling to power (much like Milosevic, once upon a time), but it is most definitely not in the long-term interest of Russia.

Russia's policy toward these would-be separatists over the next few weeks will therefore reveal a great deal about the mentality of Russia's ruling clan. If the denizens of the Kremlin have a shred of concern about their compatriots' future well-being, they'll shut up and try to calm everyone down. If not -- well, I hope they remember that the risks of the law of unintended consequences apply to them, too.

Mark
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Offline Mr.Newf

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Re: Bosnia and Kosovo: More Pomeranian grenadiers needed as peacekeepers?
« Reply #46 on: February 21, 2008, 14:43:45 »
BREAKING NEWS: Serb protesters attack U.S. embassy


(CNN) -- Angry demonstrators protesting Kosovo's independence from Serbia attacked the U.S. Embassy in Belgrade on Thursday, throwing rocks, breaking windows and setting fires.

Serbian TV showed someone trying to set fire to the U.S. flag at the embassy, which was closed and unstaffed when the masked protesters attacked.

Riot police fired tear gas at the rioters and lines of armored vehicles were on the streets.

U.S. State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said; "We are in contact with the Serbian government to ensure that they devote the appropriate assets to fulfill their international obligations to help protect diplomatic facilities in this case."

Kosovo declared independence last Sunday and the United States was among the first countries to offer official recognition of its split from Serbia.

Bratislaw Grubacic, chief editor of VIP magazine in Belgrade, said police reported 32 people injured, including 14 police officers.

Teresa Gould, a translator for Belgrade TV, said the Croatian Embassy next door also was attacked. Police quickly rounded up the demonstrators, witnesses said.

The violence was part of a much bigger, peaceful demonstration where up to 150,000 people chanted 'Kosovo is Serbia," and vowed to never accept the province's independence.

Serbian Prime Minister Vojislav Kostunica, who earlier addressed the peaceful rally, said "Kosovo is Serbia's first name." He called the declaration of independence last Sunday illegal and said will do all he can to get it annulled.

State railroads provided free transport to protesters, and schools across the country were closed Thursday for the "Kosovo is Ours" rally in the Serb capital, The Associated Press reported.  Watch the Serb protests »

Tensions also erupted at the Kosovo border checkpoint in Merdare -- about 50 kilometers (30 miles) northeast of Kosovo's capital Pristina -- as several hundred Serbian army reservists clashed with NATO-led peacekeepers and police, AP said.

Photographs showed demonstrators, many of them wearing their reservist uniform, hurling rocks and setting tires alight to create a wall of smoke before they charged past the checkpoint shouting "Kosovo is ours! Kosovo is Serbia.

U.N. police said the demonstrators had come by bus from the Serbian town of Kursumlija and were largely army veterans who had fought with the Serbian side in Kosovo's 1998-1999 war, AP reported.

Following the clashes, the demonstrators dismantled and returned to the Serbian side of the checkpoint, according to AP.

Meanwhile several hundred Bosnian Serbs rallied in the Bosnian city of Banja Luka and in the Sarajevo suburb of Lukavica, AP said.

Students in Lukavica were seen waving Serbian flags and singing Serbian patriotic songs while police in Banja Luka were stopping demonstrators from marching on the U.S. consulate there.

The breakaway region has been recognized by the U.S. and several EU nations including the UK, France and Germany but the government in Belgrade maintains that Kosovo is a part of Serbia.

Amid simmering tensions in northern Kosovo, home to most of the region's Serb minority, there were fears that Thursday's rally could spill over into violence, as was seen at the Merdare border crossing, following attacks by Serb nationalists on western targets in Belgrade including the U.S. embassy earlier this week.

The U.S. Embassy in Belgrade advised American citizens to stay away from the gathering, warning that "businesses and organizations with U.S. affiliations may serve as focal points for these demonstrations."

"We wish to remind American citizens that even demonstrations intended to be peaceful can turn confrontational and possibly escalate into violence. American citizens are therefore urged to avoid the areas of demonstrations, and to exercise caution if within the vicinity of any protests," a statement said.

On Thursday, Italy became the latest European nation to recognize Kosovo's sovereignty, AP reported.

"The recognition of Kosovo's independence does not take away anything from our closeness to Serbia," Italian Prime Minister Romano Prodi told reporters.

Russia and China continue to oppose Kosovo's declaration of independence while Spain has expressed concern that recognition will give momentum to secessionist movements in other countries, such as the Basques in northern Spain.
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Offline geo

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Re: Bosnia and Kosovo: More Pomeranian grenadiers needed as peacekeepers?
« Reply #47 on: February 21, 2008, 16:02:20 »
Hmmm... The balkans are heating up...... Where's the Archduke when you need one ???
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Offline tomahawk6

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Re: Bosnia and Kosovo: More Pomeranian grenadiers needed as peacekeepers?
« Reply #48 on: February 21, 2008, 18:53:08 »
I have to say that the US should not have recognized Kosovo its a huge mistake and has the strong possibility of Serbia taking Kosovo by force thereby putting NATO troops there in a tough spot. Should the Serbs take the military option I dont see NATO trying to stop them.  The US/NATO doesnt need this flashpoint now.

Offline geo

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Re: Bosnia and Kosovo: More Pomeranian grenadiers needed as peacekeepers?
« Reply #49 on: February 22, 2008, 09:06:36 »
Ayup!
Regardless of what happens, a lot of people are about to get their shorts tied up in knots over the things happening over there.
The match has been lit & the powder keg is in place... anyone want to prophesize what happens next ?
Chimo!

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And back again..... what a ride!