Topic: Bosnia and Kosovo: More Pomeranian grenadiers needed as peacekeepers?

[MarkOttawa]

Things are getting complicated:

All eyes on Kosovo, but Bosnia can prove greater threat to Balkan stability
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/11/09/europe/EU-GEN-EU-Bosnia.php

As the West tries to solve the future of Serbia's breakaway province of Kosovo, another related, and perhaps more dangerous threat to European security is lurking in the background — a possible disintegration of Bosnia, officials and analysts warn.

The ethnically divided country is in turmoil, with Bosnian Serbs protesting reforms proposed by the top international administrator to boost the power of central institutions.

The Serbs, who control half of Bosnia, are hinting they may try to split the former Yugoslav republic in two if Kosovo is allowed to secede from Serbia. It was a similar Serbian breakup bid in the 1990s that triggered the worst bloodshed in Europe since World War II.

Diplomats fear that EU support for Kosovo secession may add to Balkan instability, prodding the Bosnian Serb Republic's prime minister, Miroslav Dodik, to press for independence of the Serb-controlled mini state in Bosnia...

While in Bosnia itself:

Fundamentalist Islam Finds Fertile Ground in Bosnia
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,516214,00.html

The Dayton Peace Accords called for the removal of foreign combatants from Bosnia after the Balkans war. But hundreds of mujahedeen fighters stayed, and today they are successfully spreading their fundamentalist Islamist views...

Wahhabism is quickly gaining ground in the country, with polls showing that 13 percent of Bosnian Muslims support the conservative Sunni Islam reform movement. The movement is financed primarily by Saudi Arabian backers, who have invested well over a half-billion euros in Bosnia's development -- especially in the construction of over 150 mosques. The 8,187 square meter (88,124 square foot) King Fahd Mosque in Sarajevo alone cost €20 million ($29 million), and it's also where radicals go to pray...

Mark
Ottawa

[time expired]

Sorry,the modern version of the Pomeranian grenadiers (Bundeswehr)
are not interested.Fortified vacation camp in A-stan,and Mediterranean
cruises off the coast of Lebanon are quite enough, thank you.Have you
thought of asking the Americans?.
                             Regards

[MarkOttawa]

time expired:  Well there might be some Pomeranians with 235 Germans now in Bosnia:
http://www.euforbih.org/eufor/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=145&Itemid=62

Plus amongst the over 2,000 in Kosovo:
http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSL02234114

Mark
Ottawa

[time expired]

MarkOttawa
                True enough ,but I would not depend on them participating
if the lead begins to fly.My opinion is based on my day to day observation
of the political debate here in Germany concerning any deployment of
troops.I am afraid the days of Bismarck's Pomeranian Grenadiers,are for
better or worse, over.
                                  Regards
                           

[milnews.ca [5]]

Lotsa recent rumblings in the last week or so, indeed.....

"Among the greatest risks is that Kosovo’s ethnic Albanian majority will declare unilateral independence next month from Serbia, prompting Bosnian Serbs to hold a referendum on independence for their half of Bosnia, known as the Serb Republic.  The Serb Republic’s secession, and the reaction of the Muslim-Croat federation, which comprises the other half of Bosnia’s territory, would be especially dangerous because of the growth of privately held arms caches, diplomats said."

"As many as 10,000 Bosnian Serbs gathered on 29 October across Bosnia's Republika Srpska entity to protest a recent decision by the international community that in some parts of the country is seen as much-needed reform, but here is seen as another attempt to strengthen state institutions at the expense of Bosnian Serb autonomy."

"Croatian President Stjepan Mesić has weighed in on the ongoing crisis in Bosnia ....  A week into the political turmoil caused by reactions from Banja Luka and Belgrade to High Representative Miroslav Lajčak's latest measures, Mesić told Croatian Radio that the Republic of Srpska (RS) leadership wished to see disintegration of Bosnia-Herzegovina."

"Bosnian Prime Minister Nikola Spiric resigned Thursday in protest at an international envoy's decision to impose EU-backed reforms, deepening the country's worst post-war political crisis.  "I have submitted my resignation to Bosnia's presidency," Spiric, an ethnic Serb, told journalists.  Spiric said he was forced to make the move because of changes introduced last month by Miroslav Lajcak, the international community's High Representative to Bosnia.  The envoy's measures, aimed at improving the efficiency of Bosnia's central government, provoked outrage among Serb leaders, who said they would diminish their influence at the federal level and allow for Muslim domination."

[E.R. Campbell [5]]

This is a European problem and one of the Eurogroups (EU, Council of Europe, etc) should be willing and able to step in and resolve it.

If, as I suspect it will, NATO fails in Afghanistan then it may need to take on the Balkans in order to be relevant to anyone for anthing. The advantage of withdrawal to the Balkans is that the Eurotrash can ask the North Americans to do the heavy lifting* while they criticize from the safe sidelines.


----------
* I reiterate what I have said before: the problem is not the European soldiers - the Italians and Spanish are, man for man, just as brave as their American and Dutch counterparts and the French and German generals are no worse than their British and Canadian counterparts. The problem is that the European peoples have decided that combat operations are not for them, unless and until they can see (clearly) that their vital economic interests are threatened.

[George Wallace [4]]

Looks like teething problems to me.  European Nations who didn't traditionally partake in UN Peacekeeping in the past are now deploying out of the safety of their homelands and taking on the roles of peacekeeper/peacemaker.

Perhaps this will be the "Make or Break" of the EU desire to create and maintain a Euro Corps?  Will they be strong enough and coordinated enough to maintain the peace in their own corner of the world, so that they can venture out and assist in other parts of the world.?  Changing times.  New and inexperienced players entering the game.  How else will they learn the ropes?

[X-mo-1979]

I wonder why we didnt remove the very saudi looking "citizens" from places like czin (spelling)when we were there.It was also common knowledge that the huge mosque in sarajevo had extreme literature for sale by its front gate.

Everyone I talked to about Bosnia agreed it would slip back when we left,and it sure looks that way.At least Croatia got their stuff together.

[milnews.ca [5]]

The advantage of withdrawal to the Balkans is that the Eurotrash can ask the North Americans to do the heavy lifting* while they criticize from the safe sidelines.

Canadian national caveats, anyone?   

Maybe that's Ruxted-worthy - what should CAN do if (or when) Kosovo/Bosnia/Serbia blow up?

I wonder why we didnt remove the very saudi looking "citizens" from places like czin (spelling)when we were there.It was also common knowledge that the huge mosque in sarajevo had extreme literature for sale by its front gate.

It sounds like they're trying, but given that many are now Bosnian citizens, and an-already tinderbox environment in Bosnia from OTHER issues begging for one more disgruntled group (one with proven mayhem-making skill sets) to tip it into madness (again), it may not be so easy to turf 'em.

- edited to fix spelling mistake -

[Brad Sallows]

For once, let Europe move its own latrines.  If Europe can't manage this crisis, it will be fair to essentially ignore European criticism of other interventions in future.  The entry price of criticizing foreign interventionism is the will and ability to do so oneself on occasion.

[MarkOttawa]

time expired: Quite.  My use of "peacekeepers" in the title was a tad ironic, even sarcastic.

E.R. Campbell: Of course the main problem in Europe is the politicians--and the people who vote them in (as in Canada).  Democracy sure can make some things hard, but...

Mark
Ottawa

[MarkOttawa]

Kosovo's prime minister threatens UDI:
http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110010866

The Kosovo status process is reaching its natural conclusion. The present negotiations come to their appointed end on Dec. 10. This will create the atmosphere for a positive and collaborative declaration of independence and prompt recognition by the international community...

Kosovo alone will declare its independence, but in an atmosphere of international satisfaction that serious negotiations have been taken as far as possible, and of a clear commitment from Kosovo to reconciliation and regional stability. This will be a very multilateral independence.

 

Russians (and Serbs) are not happy at the prospect:
http://www.eubusiness.com/news_live/1195050721.76

The international community should allow Serbia and Kosovo to reach a solution on the Serbian province's status by themselves without setting a date for an end to negotiations, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said here Wednesday.

"We have to understand clearly that the two sides alone have to come to a solution," Lavrov told a joint news conference with his Slovenian counterpart Dimitrij Rupel.

He added that current Kosovo negotiations under the helm of the international troika of EU, Russian and US mediators "have set the foundations for reaching a negotiatied solution without prejudging the result or setting a date for the conclusion of negotiations."

Lavrov warned that it would be counter-productive to back the Kosovo Albanian majority's plan to declare independence unilaterally if current negotiations fail to produce a result by December 10, a date fixed by the troika for ending talks...

He added that if the ethnic Albanian majority declared the province's independence, that would not only "affect Kosovo but also parts of Serbia and the Balkans as a whole." [emphasis added, think Bosnia]..

What a mess.

Mark
Ottawa

[E.R. Campbell [5]]

Kosovo's prime minister threatens UDI:
http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110010866
 

Russians (and Serbs) are not happy at the prospect:
http://www.eubusiness.com/news_live/1195050721.76

What a mess.

Mark
Ottawa

Oh, goody!

Let's have the French and Germans and Russians sort this one out. They made the original mess.

[BF1]

MarkOttawa
                True enough ,but I would not depend on them participating
if the lead begins to fly.My opinion is based on my day to day observation
of the political debate here in Germany concerning any deployment of
troops.I am afraid the days of Bismarck's Pomeranian Grenadiers,are for
better or worse, over.
                                  Regards
                           

During the entry into Kosovo in 1999, the Germans were aggressive and quickly dominated their AOR.  Don't underestimate their reaction to a territory such as Kosovo which could easily become sympathetic (more sympathetic?) to radical Islamic elements who would love a secure launching point in Europe for operations against European nations.  Added to this, it is open source knowledge that Kosovo is a major transhipment point for Heroin coming from SE Asia into European markets. We have to keep in mind that the Kosovar view is that the UCK liberated Kosovo with the help of NATO, but also remember that the UCK was listed as a terrorist organization prior to the 1999 NATO offenxive.

[Zip]

Whats in it for Canada?  Kosovo and Bosnia have practically no meaning for us.  We have not been attacked by the UCK or the MUP, here in Canada and we don't share a border with either of them.

There is for all intents and purposes no danger of an ideologically driven fanatical group rising up in either one of those enclaves to strike out at the world.  Bosnian Muslims are not cut from the same cloth as some Middle-eastern ones as the failed attempts of the Mujahadeen to stir up fundamentalism during the Balkans war proved.

We've got no dog in this fight, North America should sit back and watch, no matter how ugly it gets.