Author Topic: Questions about becoming a pilot  (Read 87071 times)

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Offline RobOfstie

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Re: Questions about becoming a pilot
« Reply #300 on: March 09, 2010, 16:33:44 »
Thanks Zoomie.  I appreciate the reply.  I'll have to ask through the appropriate avenues at my unit to research this further for me.   I'm hoping with my Commercial heli ticket and fixed wing ticket I'll be able to utilize this entry plan should it open up in the future.  Or perhaps get my Group IV instrument rating and attemp to get in through HELI-COP, although from what I understand unless your ex-reg force this is very difficult. 

Thanks,

Rob   

Offline Loachman

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Re: Questions about becoming a pilot
« Reply #301 on: March 10, 2010, 13:51:44 »
HELICOP is designed for people off of the street with a commercial licence. It is currently the only way for a non-ex-Reg Force person to become a Res Force Pilot. It is possible to CT to the Reg F afterwards if desired.

Offline RobOfstie

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Re: Questions about becoming a pilot
« Reply #302 on: March 11, 2010, 09:55:28 »
Loachman,

Have there been many Civies utilize the HELI-COP program in the past?  I've heard of one or two but it doesn't seem to be all that common.  Also, just wondering how much turbine time would be required for entry in through this program?  I know the 500 tt and IFR rating are requirements but I've also read that some turbine time is required.    Obviously the best course of action would be to contact 408 in Edmonton but I just want to be as educated as I can be before I contact them. 

Offline Loachman

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Re: Questions about becoming a pilot
« Reply #303 on: March 11, 2010, 13:15:07 »
Very few people have gone through HELICOP. We have one fellow here, who's been Reg Force for several years now.

You'll have to contact 408 Squadron for the latest info, and the availability of positions.

Offline snooze

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Re: Questions about becoming a pilot
« Reply #304 on: March 11, 2010, 15:37:31 »
are pilot selection boards held at the same time as DEO boards for other trades? since pilot is currently oversubscribed, does that mean that there isn't currently an application deadline per se? when are the selection boards normally held for DEO pilot slots?

Offline bdave

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Re: Questions about becoming a pilot
« Reply #305 on: March 11, 2010, 18:38:04 »
I am violating the Official Secrets Act here, so don't tell anybody else, but I fly Helicopters.

I do some paperpushing as well, in order to emulate other Officer professions as part of my cover.

I meant on what a heli pilot does exactly.
For example, taking someone through a usual day as a helicopter pilot.
What would the incentive be to becoming a helicopter pilot and cut off a chance of becoming a CF18 fighter pilot (other than: i prefer helicopters)?
Do helicopter pilots do mostly personnel transport? Search and rescue? Etc
How much time do you actually spend flying? I've heard someone say that CF18 pilots only really fly 150ish hours a year.

Offline DesertFox

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Re: Questions about becoming a pilot
« Reply #306 on: March 11, 2010, 20:30:14 »
I am planning on going for DEO pilot next spring after I recieve my degree(april 2011), I have heard that serving in the reserves will help my chances of being selected for pilot. I was wondering if anyone knows if this is true or not? Im looking at joining a naval reserve unit for MARS officer to get some training done this summer and during the next school year in hopes that this will help give me an advantage for applying for pilot.  All other other things being equal would DEO or reserve officer transfer be the better choice for going for pilot? Im just worried that if I go into a trade like MARS that they will try to keep me away from pilot and push me towards MARS when I apply for transfer to reg force. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

Offline Loachman

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Re: Questions about becoming a pilot
« Reply #307 on: March 11, 2010, 21:54:45 »
I meant on what a heli pilot does exactly.

That's actually not so easy to answer, at least at my typing speed.

For example, taking someone through a usual day as a helicopter pilot.

Again, difficult to do - what is "usual"? I just came back from six weeks of living on a cruise ship in Vancouver Harbour. I didn't fly much during that time for various reasons, and I'm not going to discuss everything that we did do. There was a little bit of mountain flying training, because we had the necessary primary training aids, some VIP and other personnel transport missions, some air intercept training, some site famils before the op actually started, and a whole bunch of standing by.

When it was done, some guys flew home in hels, and some of us went home in a C17 with three hels. On arrival in Trenton, we spent three hours offloading from about 2300 to 0200 and then five hours rebuilding the machines to fly them back to Borden. We pilots assisted the techs where able, mostly with manual labour tasks such as hauling the (bloody heavy) main rotor blade boxes and lifting the blades up to the heads for installation by those better qualified.

This past week has been fairly light, as we still have people and machines in Whistler for the Paralympics. A fair amount of clean-up and maintenance by our techs was required on the machines, as it is after any deployment, and there has been a fair amount of personal administration to catch up on by most of us. This morning I flew a two-hour Standard Manouevres and Emergencies trip just to get back into the basic currency stuff that we could not do in Vancouver, and a couple of instrument approaches. I'm doing a tactical handling trip tomorrow morning.

From the beginning of October 2008 until the end of April 2009 I was in KAF as a Mission Commander for the Sperwer TUAV, which followed several months of training and workups in Borden, Edmonton and Wainwright.

I spent about eight years in a major headquarters as the helicopter booking agent shortly before that.

I got much more flying in previous flying tours, and in a variety of places. I've flown all over non-communist Europe, Norway, England, and a few places in the US for a variety of reasons. I've lived in tents in all weather conditions and seasons for up to almost two months.

I plan exercises and other major activities, fly a variety of missions for ground troops, do VIP missions, static displays at the CNE, and occasionally spend a night or two in a Holiday Inn somewhere.

Do helicopter pilots do mostly personnel transport? Search and rescue? Etc

Tac Hel Squadrons have a secondary SAR role, but I've never trained for it.

We do airmobile troop insertions, rappel, and parachute missions. We sling cargo. We do light transport and escort roles (among others) in Kandahar.

And a bunch of other stuff.

I fly real low, I yank and bank, by sun, by moon and stars
I put on zippered clothing, and hang around in bars.

There really is no "usual" day.

How much time do you actually spend flying? I've heard someone say that CF18 pilots only really fly 150ish hours a year.

I would expect to get more than that, but that, too, depends.

And we don't have to live in Cold Lake or Bagotville.

Offline bdave

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Re: Questions about becoming a pilot
« Reply #308 on: March 11, 2010, 22:21:25 »
Thank you :)
If one wanted to be more focused in the SAR area, what would one do? Or do they put you where they please?

Offline gcclarke

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Re: Questions about becoming a pilot
« Reply #309 on: March 12, 2010, 10:10:48 »
I am planning on going for DEO pilot next spring after I recieve my degree(april 2011), I have heard that serving in the reserves will help my chances of being selected for pilot. I was wondering if anyone knows if this is true or not? Im looking at joining a naval reserve unit for MARS officer to get some training done this summer and during the next school year in hopes that this will help give me an advantage for applying for pilot.  All other other things being equal would DEO or reserve officer transfer be the better choice for going for pilot? Im just worried that if I go into a trade like MARS that they will try to keep me away from pilot and push me towards MARS when I apply for transfer to reg force. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

Frankly, if the only reason that you might want to go MARS is to improve your chances of becoming a pilot, I highly suggest that you don't go MARS.

The main "problem" that will pop up when you go to apply for a CT to pilot won't be that you're MARS and they're too short on them. It'll be that you want to be a pilot, and there's a bazillion more applicants than there are spots available. But if you join up as a MARSie only because you view it as a way to get your foot in the door as a pilot, well, you'll probably have a rather unpleasant time. Unless you're a really good actor, everyone else in the unit will likely rather quickly figure out that you don't really want to be there. In the end, this could even hurt your chances of a successful CT.

Now, that's making an assumption. If you want to be a pilot, but MARS is a perfectly acceptable alternative, then go ahead and give it a shot. But please don't try to use the Navy only as a way to pad your resume for the Air Force. In my humble opinion that would be an unconsiounable waste of public funds.
"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.  Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘Press On’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
- Calvin Coolidge

Offline DesertFox

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Re: Questions about becoming a pilot
« Reply #310 on: March 12, 2010, 11:47:49 »
gcclarke,

Thanks. Yes I should have been more clear, pilot is what I want but MARS is the occupation I would like if I could not enter as a pilot. I would be more then happy to accept reg force MARS after I exhaust all my options for becoming a pilot, im just worried that if I go res MARS that they would not give me a shot at pilot. I am going to be upfront and honest about this too when I go into the interview.
I just went through the ROTP application process for pilot(completed everything but didnt get to go to ACS) but had to withdraw because I technically only have 2 semesters of my degree left after this one and not the minimum of 3. I was told that I was a good candidate and that I should start the DEO process next feb/march. This was my plan. Keep my grades high, continue volunteer work, and my athletics. But then I heard that service in the reserves is highly valued and taken into account for selection(I heard something about a points system) . So ive been looking into that, and I picked MARS because that is a occupation that I would like if pilot was unavailable to me(this would remain the case if I were to wait and go DEO anyway). I fully intend to try to make a career in the Canadain Forces in any capacity. I dont know if that changes anything but any more advice on it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Offline Flyer1987

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Re: Questions about becoming a pilot
« Reply #311 on: April 05, 2010, 15:30:28 »
Anyone know the intake for pilot April 2010?

Offline Otis

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Re: Questions about becoming a pilot
« Reply #312 on: April 06, 2010, 16:07:32 »
For the first time in a LONG time, there is some intake for DEO Pilot.

There is also SOME intake for CEOTP Pilot.

Good Luck!
Since I've been on the new medication, it's become MUCH easier to ignore the Stupid people.

Offline westcoastboy

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Re: Questions about becoming a pilot
« Reply #313 on: April 10, 2010, 19:52:46 »
Otis
Do you know how those DEO PILOT spots are being doled out, I'm a little confused how there could possibly be CEOPT spots available for PILOT. Is that not the exact same as DEO but a little less money and 12yrs to complete a degree.

Offline Otis

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Re: Questions about becoming a pilot
« Reply #314 on: April 10, 2010, 21:37:16 »
Not a CLUE how they decide how many of what kind of spots are available ... all I get is the numbers saying we're looking for this many of this trade with that entry plan ...
Since I've been on the new medication, it's become MUCH easier to ignore the Stupid people.

Offline Griffon

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Re: Questions about becoming a pilot
« Reply #315 on: April 10, 2010, 22:50:53 »
The number of slots for entry is determined by comparing the current manning level, forecasted attrition, and service requirements.  Right now the pilot occupation is very low compared to the PML (Preferred Manning Level) so right now they are taking in as many people in a year as the training system can handle.  There are more slots for DEO and CEOTP now than in previous years because it takes four years to send a candidate through officer training; therefore you can have a pilot at operational capability four years earlier if they don't need to be sent to RMC first.

Otis, CEOTP I personally find it difficult to compare DEO to CEOTP as they are quite different, but I do see the how you can make the comparison.  The military foots the bill for the degree in the case of CEOTP, and the unit is also responsible to provide some time to the member for studies, and to monitor degree progression.  A period of subsidised full time studies is also conservatively offered with mandatatory service incurred. 

They use CEOTP to supplement the intake numbers.  I think there would be a preference for the CF to intake DEO due to the mandate for a degreed officer corps, but there may be more difficulty in attracting such candidates, and so they use CEOTP to bump up yearly intake.

...at least that's how I think it all works...

Offline Otis

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Re: Questions about becoming a pilot
« Reply #316 on: April 11, 2010, 11:18:58 »
Your reasoning is sound Griffon, but I have a couple of corrections for you:

You are correct that Pilot is low compared to the PML, but for the past few years we have declined to take DEO ... did the training system all-of-a-sudden "open up" or has there been a planning error by the C of C?

I don't know what your experience has been, but under CEOTP there is no guarantee of time for studies. Yes, most units will provide time when they are able, and yes, they are responsible to monitor and yes, there MAY BE a period of full time studies, but only the monitoring is ensured.

Lastly, your assumption that attracting DEO candidates is difficult is a complete error, and I have the stack of files for wanna-be pilots to prove it. (I in no way intend the term "wanna-be" to be derogatory, merely descriptive ... these people want to be pilots)

MY theory (and it's just that, I have no special info or insight) is that some people who want to become pilots, but may not be able to afford it after having completed their degrees, choose to attempt to join the CF in order to get the training. Combine that with the cut-backs in the civilian airlines and the number of EX-CF airline pilots and it becomes an attractive way of beefing up a resume.

My theory regarding the attractiveness of ROTP to the CF is this - "Obligatory service" ... yes, in theory, it saves the CF money when they don't have to pay for an education (DEO) ... however, the CF being a volunteer service (in that, it's not mandatory for Cdns to serve), a contract is just that, a contract, and we all know there are several ways to get out of a contract. I know LOTS of ex CF members who did not serve their entire 20+ years. Obligatory service incurred due to education however, THAT is much harder to get away from (the threat of having to pay back a LARGE scholarship and salary is pretty convincing)

SO, there you have it ... Pilot training with a guarantee of AT LEAST a few years service afterwards, or pilot training with a 'promise' of a few years service afterwards (and the conflict of a lot more money being offered civvie-side to entice the newly graduated)

Now - for all of the pilot applicants out there - again, I do not intend the term "wanna-be" to be derogatory, nor do I think that everyone is out to screw the system by getting their training and running away ... I am simply explaining HOW the CF MAY see ROTP as a preferred system to DEO when it comes to high-profile, high cost, lots-of-training, lots of civvie competition jobs. I'm sure that everyone feels that they are in it to serve their country and have every intention of completing at least their first contract, if not make the CF their career for life.
Since I've been on the new medication, it's become MUCH easier to ignore the Stupid people.

Offline Zoomie

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Re: Questions about becoming a pilot
« Reply #317 on: April 11, 2010, 11:38:13 »
"wanna-be" is not derogatory - it is an apt description of baby CF pilots.

New Wing Grads (NWGs) are not really in a position to get a high paying job anymore than the 200hr wonders coming out of civi-flight school.  We can usually get at least two tours out of an aviator before the allure of the airlines drags them away.  In all reality, the grass isn't very green on the other side - we have a steady stream of re-enrollees coming back to the CF after the current downturn in the airline industry.  The 65% pay cut doesn't really make it too attractive either.

It's not a "promise" either - it's a restrictive release program that is instituted upon receipt of wings - 7 years owed.

Offline kc86

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Re: Questions about becoming a pilot
« Reply #318 on: May 14, 2010, 02:11:58 »
I spoke with a recruiter and was told to contact him in September. Is there any plausible reason for this or was he telling me to take a hike.

Offline kc86

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Re: Questions about becoming a pilot
« Reply #319 on: May 14, 2010, 02:17:54 »
And also where will my CPL and Group 1 instrument get me. Will it help or am I as far ahead as the guy with no log book (in terms of successfully getting into the CF as a pilot)

Offline lstpierre

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Re: Questions about becoming a pilot
« Reply #320 on: May 14, 2010, 09:52:48 »
I spoke with a recruiter and was told to contact him in September. Is there any plausible reason for this or was he telling me to take a hike.

Did you mention that you have your CPL and multi IFR? When I applied 2 years ago, they told me to go away because no spots were open, but then after I mentioned that I had a multi IFR and CPL with a few hundred hours, they told me to apply and see what happens.

I can't speak for whether or not your licenses and ratings will help you get your wings as I only just received my offer recently and haven't even started training, but I can tell you that it seems it gives you a decent edge in the recruitment process for getting an offer (at least it seemed to for me). Also, after having gone through the aircrew selection centre, there is nobody on this planet that could ever convince me that having your licenses wouldn't help you through ASC (especially the IFR). Already having instrument flying skills definitely helped. 

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe people with a CPL get to bypass PFT in Portage-La-Prairie, which cuts out a big chunk of waiting.


Offline Zoomie

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Re: Questions about becoming a pilot
« Reply #321 on: May 14, 2010, 10:48:55 »
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe people with a CPL get to bypass PFT in Portage-La-Prairie, which cuts out a big chunk of waiting.

There are certain criteria that allow for a PFT bypass - but - by no means does it make your wait shorter.  In some cases it actually adds a year.  Allow me to explain.

If you are a die-hard jet-wannabe, then Moose Jaw is your only option.  However, if all you want is to fly Helo or Multi - you can apply for Phase 2 Grob at Portage.  The caveat for this, you must have completed PFT recently.  The wait for Phase 2 Grob is measured in weeks to months, vice months to years for Moose Jaw.  The wait after Phase 2 is minimal too - sometimes in the matter of days.  If you bypass PFT, you do not have this option.  Choose wisely.

Offline brian_k

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Re: Questions about becoming a pilot
« Reply #322 on: May 15, 2010, 10:38:59 »
Quote
I don't know what your experience has been, but under CEOTP there is no guarantee of time for studies. Yes, most units will provide time when they are able, and yes, they are responsible to monitor and yes, there MAY BE a period of full time studies, but only the monitoring is ensured.

A canforgen recently came out stating that no CEOTP will be given time to go to school during working hours while on OJT. So don't expect to use any of your 4 years on OJT to get a degree unless it is in the evening.

Offline Griffon

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Re: Questions about becoming a pilot
« Reply #323 on: May 17, 2010, 10:26:52 »
brian_k,
The CANAIRGEN stated that there will be no time given towards studies for the mbr's degree, but the unit CAN give time for the completion of OPMEs.  CEOTP officers can also apply for full time subsidized studies on a competitive basis, but this will incur further obligatory service.  If one were to elect to attain a BMASc degree from RMC, the OPMEs count towards the degree.  Prior military courses and experience can count towards that degree program as well (subject to PLAR by RMC).  So there's still options...

Offline brian_k

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Re: Questions about becoming a pilot
« Reply #324 on: May 17, 2010, 10:39:34 »
I know that people are still allowed to attend OPME's. I just find it odd that people aren't being pushed to attend school and try to complete their degrees in the 3+ years of OJT. I would assume university would be a higher priority then driving ramp taxi, measure the distance the distance between telephone poles or just staring at a computer screen.