Author Topic: Afghanistan: Why we should be there (or not), how to conduct the mission (or not) & when to leave  (Read 258577 times)

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Offline The Ruxted Group

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« Last Edit: October 05, 2006, 13:43:39 by Bruce Monkhouse »

Offline MCG

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Re: Responses to The Afghanistan Debate
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2006, 16:34:08 »
That should be required reading for all Canadians.

Offline Patrick H.

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Re: Responses to The Afghanistan Debate
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2006, 17:43:56 »
Very clearly stated. Anyone inquiring, or a bit confused, about our presence in Afghanistan or stance against terrorism should read this article.
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Offline Teltech

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Re: Responses to The Afghanistan Debate
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2006, 18:25:46 »
So when will this be forwarded to the PMO?
Eeny, Meeny, Myni, Moe - I need a tech to go...

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Offline Weinie

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Re: Responses to The Afghanistan Debate
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2006, 18:36:56 »
  And Jack Layton
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Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: Responses to The Afghanistan Debate
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2006, 18:49:07 »
So when will this be forwarded to the PMO?

Here is what I sent at about 1845 on 7 Sep 06 to pm@pm.gc.ca

----------

Dear Prime Minister;

I wish to add to the advice you are receiving re: the Afghanistan mission.

...

My views are expressed fully and completely by the most recent Army.ca editorial at: http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,49909.0.html

I will be grateful and you will be well served if one of your staff actually reads it.

Edward Campbell
Ottawa

If all mankind minus one were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.
John Stuart Mill, On Liberty (1859)
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Offline Weinie

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Re: Responses to The Afghanistan Debate
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2006, 19:18:06 »
  Well done Edward
"The Bomb will never go off, and I speak as an expert in explosives."
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Offline gnplummer421

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Re: Responses to The Afghanistan Debate
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2006, 19:29:00 »
Excellent reading, well done! :salute:

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Offline Beadwindow 7

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Re: Responses to The Afghanistan Debate
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2006, 20:32:14 »
Once again, an excellent editorial.

Require reading, Jack Layton
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Offline fiddlehead

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Re: Responses to The Afghanistan Debate
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2006, 07:13:44 »
excellent - as usual.   Thank you!

Offline Lockness

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Re: Responses to The Afghanistan Debate
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2006, 10:47:11 »
 I was hoping for more discussion on this topic, so I will add mine.  Feel free to lob shots or add to the ideas you see fit.

An added element to the boat analogy are the waves that are breaking over the sides of the boat by including the waves of reinforcements and supply from the Arabic jihadists, Chechnyan merceneries, sympathetic Pashtun tribesmen in Pakistan and others, all seemingly coordinated out of the newly created unofficially named state of "Talibstan."  Pushing the analogy further, does NATO/ANA need to build a "breakwater" along the border to prevent the waves from swamping the boat while the military is bailing out the internal fighters and the Provincial Reconstruction Teams are patching the holes.

Given the reluctance of many NATO members to live up to their commitments in Afghanistan following 9/11/01, the West seems to champion the minimalistic approach to solving problems.  For example, in providing the minimum number of "bailers" to keep up with in inflow of water without making much of an impact on the water level despite their best and heroic efforts all the while being criticized at home and abroad by their bailing method.

Was it not then-Col. Dwight Eisenhower who wrote his brother Milton, "Hitler should beware the fury of an aroused democracy."
Well apparently, the horrors of 9/11 certainly aroused our democracy for a little while, but it seems to have fallen asleep again as Canada and the West is pondering its commitments and becoming disconnected with what the Afghanistan mission is all about. 

As far as protecting our national interests...

Afghanistan is only one field of battle of this whole so-called fundamental Islamic clash with Western Society.  The Afghanistan mission is an important battle to win because if the West can drag Afghanistan out of the bombed out shell it is to become a stable, secure, and internationally functioning society it will truly demonstrate that the Western Society is not weak and morally corrupt as many on the fundamental Islamic side are preaching.  If Canada pulls out and undermines the UN and NATO mission is will be a victory for the fundamental Islamicists thereby demonstrating their successful strategy and rally more support for the next battleground.

Argueably Canada has demonstrated a high moral standard through its past and current foreign policies, multiculturalism, and tolerance.  If Canada unilaterly leaves our NATO allies to fight on, it will no doubt have a serious impact on foreign relations and influence.  By staying, Canada can assume a leadership role in tempering the more radical policies of the West.

Strategically, our best weapon against fundamental Islamic radicals are moderate Islamics who have experienced the advantages and freedoms the West has to offer and are willing to help lead reforms and modernization in the Islamic world.  Destroying the jihadists on the battlefield although tactically important and garners much of the media's attention is really a distraction in the grand scheme of things.


Offline MCG

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Re: Responses to The Afghanistan Debate
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2006, 20:45:07 »
Here is another good piece with a similar view: http://www.cbc.ca/national/rex/rex_060907.html

Offline whiskey601

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Re: Responses to The Afghanistan Debate
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2006, 23:15:57 »
Here is another good piece with a similar view: http://www.cbc.ca/national/rex/rex_060907.html

I have tried to stay out of this.

I think Jack Layton and Bill Graham were likely given the courtesy of a comprehensive, full and fair briefing prior to the commencement of Medusa.  It would have been plain and obvious to even the simplest of fools that Medusa was destined to huge, violent  and likely very protracted. He has not publicly broken his oath of secrecy as to what he was told, but this has definitely caused him to do a total reversal and has, IMO, sided with the TB, whom he has now come to view as a peasant army fighting for their land.

He has, I fear, spilled the beans internally with his closest advisors, some of whom are defintely sympathetic to the Islamic insurgency,  and with that the inner circle of knowledge and ideological based resentment against the war grows. 



 

Offline Cadarn

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Re: Responses to The Afghanistan Debate
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2006, 04:55:11 »
All of the editorials I have read on army.ca should be required reading across Canada, but this has been the best by far.  This editorial breaks down the situation for the average, situationally-ignorant Canadians (and there are far too many of them).  Now we just have to find a way to get Mr. Harper to follow the advice and educate those who don't support the campaign in Afghanistan.
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How CAN Got Into K'Har
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2006, 06:35:52 »
As an interesting supplement to the piece spotted by Edward Campbell earlier this year
http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,43815.msg383154.html#msg383154

here's another account of how Canada got into K'Har, shared  in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the Copyright Act - http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html#rid-33409

The road to Kandahar
At an afternoon meeting in Ottawa, a decision was made that would cost soldiers' lives, billions of taxpayers' dollars and, perhaps, Canada's reputation
Bill Schiller, Toronto Star, 9 Sept 06
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1157753409549&call_pageid=968332188774

It was the afternoon of March 21, 2005 — 48 hours before Prime Minister Paul Martin's first visit to the ranch with presidents George W. Bush and Vicente Fox in Waco, Texas.

Members of Martin's inner circle were filing into Room 323-S in Parliament's Centre Block, among them, freshly minted Chief of the Defence Staff Gen. Rick Hillier, a charismatic and articulate man hand-picked by the Prime Minister himself.

Martin had called the meeting to discuss an array of foreign-policy issues.

But Hillier and planners in the defence department were fixed on one thing and one thing only: Afghanistan.

The meeting was the perfect opportunity to win confirmation for an idea they'd been planning for months, one that had the potential to transform Canada's military and embolden its reputation worldwide.

Defence Minister Bill Graham had already confirmed Canada would be sending soldiers in Afghanistan south to Kandahar, the dangerous stronghold and birthplace of the Taliban. There, Canadians would run a Provincial Reconstruction Team (PRT), a military formation combined with small components of diplomacy and development. The goal: to help reconstruct the country.

But Hillier wanted more than that — and he'd already won backing from the government's foreign affairs establishment.

Hillier wanted a battle group — at least 1,000 soldiers strong.

Three hours later, Hillier had won the room. Canadian soldiers would move from the relative comfort of Kabul to the pointy edge of combat in the turbulent south.

A cabinet committee would later refine the details, then the full cabinet would approve it.

But that afternoon in the oval-shaped room will be remembered as the day the deal was done, the day that paved the Canadian road to Kandahar.

In time, the decision would cost the lives of Canadian soldiers, billions of taxpayers' dollars and, possibly, our well-earned reputation for peacekeeping built during the last 50 years.

The mission has stirred controversy — one that will endure, especially since Prime Minister Stephen Harper's government has extended that mission from 2007 until at least 2009.

How long it will actually take to stabilize Afghanistan, nobody knows. But former Canadian ambassador to Kabul Chris Alexander has been quoted as saying: "Five generations."

Some who were in the room that day (they numbered about a dozen), say there were no raised voices, no clashes and certainly no outrage.

Those assembled knew the assignment would be risky. They knew that Canadians would die. But several say that no one expected the kinds of casualties Canadian forces are now experiencing.

"It was clearly contemplated that peace was going to have to be made," says one. "And that making peace was going to lead to the potential of losing lives. But I don't think it was contemplated on this scale ... people didn't expect this many to be coming home in coffins."

Hillier himself laments the death of every soldier, and stresses that all measures are taken to diminish risk. But neither will he deny the risky reality of soldiering.

"We are soldiers. This is our profession. This is who we are and what we do."

He also argues that the battle group he argued for, and won, was absolutely essential to the mission. There can be no aid and no redevelopment without security, he says.

"We knew the Afghan army was still developing. The Afghan police are even further behind. So, we were going to have to ... provide that security and stability," he says during an interview this week.

But the loss of lives was not the only issue to be considered in the decision-making process.

A number of people in the process were uncomfortable with the fact that to go south to Kandahar, Canada was going to have to step outside of the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force (ISAF), and once again sign up with the American-led Operation Enduring Freedom. (OEF).

Jonathan Fried, Paul Martin's then-foreign policy adviser, told others he had no problem with that. It was not precedent-setting. We had been there before — in the days following 9/11, Fried said. It was not a big shift.

But others had concerns. ISAF was truly multilateral, led by an international organization. Its mandate was to assist the Afghan government. It had somewhat more restrained rules of engagement.

By contrast, Operation Enduring Freedom was an American-led, counter-terrorism mission, aimed at rooting out and killing Taliban. Other nations assisted it, but it was Washington-run and directed by an administration mainly known for its muscle. And while the operation had been approved by a UN mandate, that mandate was issued on the basis of self-defence — issued on Sept. 12, 2001.

But why couldn't Canada move into the south and remain under ISAF command, some wondered? Why did it have to come under the OEF umbrella?

A now-retired senior defence department official explained that ISAF was not yet ready to go into the volatile south. There were still "discussions" going on in Europe about whether or not to deploy in the southern region.

The Dutch were hesitant in the extreme. The British would debate the issue in Parliament. So would Canada — but only after the decision was already taken.

Following discussions with British and Dutch military officials, Canada decided to pave the way for the eventual deployment of their NATO partners and allow them time to prepare.

But Canada couldn't go there solo. It needed a larger alliance to plug into, an alliance that could provide air support and more guns, and be able to medevac out wounded soldiers and provide them with first-class medical care.

The Americans had all that in spades.

The prevailing attitude to emerge in the March meeting, however, was that "the world had changed," and Canada "had to change with it."

NATO generals were watching, wondering whether Canada was going to keep a commitment made by former defence minister John McCallum at a NATO meeting in December 2003. Was Canada going to live up to it? Would Canada provide a PRT somewhere in Afghanistan?

"There was a feeling that this was the price of being a G-8 country," recalls Scott Reid, formerly Martin's communications director. "It was a question of, you know, after having shown up all these years with a six-pack, whether we were finally going to tend bar."

And then, of course, there was the American angle.

"There was a fairly strong trail of orthodoxy," that ran through the foreign affairs bureaucracy, Reid says, "that was based on an evaluation of strategic interests in terms of our relationship with the United States. A lot of times policy was put to us based on, `This matters to this White House. And things that matter to this White House can't be taken lightly, because these guys take it personally ... So, we really have to evaluate the importance of making a decision that runs counter to this White House.'"

There were, already, decisions taken that had run counter to the Bush administration: Canada had refused to join the coalition of the willing in the war against Iraq; Canada had opted out of the Missile Defence plan. And now, Canada was not going to help the Americans in southern Afghanistan at a time when they were stretched thin in Iraq?

Former Canadian ambassador to Washington Michael Kergin remembers the post-Iraq period well. There was a definite chill there, he says.

"There was this sense that we had let the side down ... and then there was the sense that we could be more helpful, militarily, by taking on a role in Afghanistan ... we could make a contribution in a place like Kandahar."

It was, if not payback time, then pay-up time.

Kergin says that in the world of diplomacy, governments don't spell these things out.

"You don't really need to ... it's pretty obvious ... the Americans were stretched in Iraq."

"There was," says another official who played a role in the decision-making process and attended the meeting, "what you might call an inevitability about the decision."

No one would ever call Hillier "arrogant," but some say another prevailing view emerged in the room: that if you couldn't embrace the new and more dangerous world order you were just "naive."

As for Martin, he saw Afghanistan as an "obligation" from the Chrétien era, one he had to honour.

"But his real belief was that Afghanistan wasn't a natural fit for Canada," says a key adviser. "Fundamentally, (Martin) felt Canada was more suited to places like Haiti and Darfur, where we were within our natural skills — the hard, but also the soft skills in particular."

But Hillier, articulate as always, and speaking without notes, was compelling.

He had been selected by Martin as defence chief because of his transformational leadership. And Martin wanted to see the Canadian Forces transformed.

"There was no doubt after sitting with Gen. Hillier for 20 minutes that he was the man for the job," Reid recalls.

Before endorsing Hillier's battle-group plan, Martin wanted Hillier's assurance that if Canada was called upon to participate in a mission in Darfur, Haiti or — say several who were in the room — even the Middle East, that there would be sufficient Canadian troops available to respond.

Martin made it plain, says one, that he didn't want to be "patronized ... he didn't want any `Yes, Minister' business. He looked Hillier squarely in the eye and demanded his commitment."

He got it.

In return, days later, three different options for the battle group formation were brought back for consideration: small, medium and large.

"One was a kind of `saving-face' deployment that would at least allow us to say we did it," recalls one participant. "One was really big — and defence hoped they'd get that one."

What they got instead was a mid-size plan, the current deployment, but the defence department was much pleased.

"You cannot underestimate the desire of soldiers to prove themselves in combat," says Paul Heinbecker, a former foreign senior policy adviser under the Chrétien and Mulroney governments; nor of commanders to finally show their skill in managing real battlefields, he says.

That said, Heinbecker is wary of the Afghanistan mission.

"Why are we doing this?" he asks in a recent interview. "Do we have any prospects of success? Will we know when it's time to get out — other than the death toll going up?

"And even more important is the fact that this is identifying us with American foreign policy. And in this world, that's a dangerous proposition."

While pleasing the Bush White House might not have been the determining factor in the decision to send combat troops to Kandahar, "pleasing the Americans and earning our spurs" was definitely part of the equation, says Heinbecker, now director of the Laurier Centre for Global Relations in Waterloo.

Was that wise?

"The United States, for a whole series of reasons, from exceptionalism to neo-conism to hubris to ignorance about the world, is conducting itself in a way that is creating a lot of enemies. And I just don't see how our association with that helps," he says.

In fact, he stresses, "it's endangering Canada."

Former Liberal cabinet minister Lloyd Axworthy shares some of those concerns.

"War has its own momentum," he warns, worrying about just where combat in southern Afghanistan will take us. "The deeper you get into it, the more you tend to lose sight of your objectives."

Despite Canada's commitment to focus its efforts on reconstruction in southern Afghanistan, recent turbulence on the ground hasn't allowed much.

"There's virtually very little news about the wider political and diplomatic issues surrounding Afghanistan," Axworthy says. "It's all focused on the military."

Meanwhile, he doubts there's very much resemblance between what Hillier proposed in Room 323-S on March 21, 2005, and what's happening on the ground in Kandahar today.

"There's serious concern that the mandate has gone through mission creep, and that what was defined by Gen. Hillier to the Liberal government has substantially altered.

"I don't think it has ever been defined in clear terms that we have shifted the nature of the mission. We're still using the language that we're still there to build the peace, but the PRTs (the Provincial Reconstruction Teams) that were originally set up are virtually now combat teams.

"Is that what we signed on to do?"

Axworthy points to recent polls showing Canadians turning against the mission.

"There's an innate sense among the public," he says, "that this is not right."
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Offline Technoviking

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Re: How CAN Got Into K'Har
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2006, 08:06:25 »
In time, the decision would cost the lives of Canadian soldiers, billions of taxpayers' dollars and, possibly, our well-earned reputation for peacekeeping built during the last 50 years.

What about our 4 Canadian Mechanised Brigade Group?  What about Operation PANDA?  What about the Standing Fleet in the North Atlantic?  What about 1st Canadian Air Division?  These formations (and more) were all about our NATO comittment to defending the Federal Republic of Germany, a nation raised from the ashes of a former enemy.  Heck, in 1989, 5th Brigade joined 4 Brigade in the 1st Canadian Division!  None of these were about "peace keeping", a fuzzy term at best, and certainly a tool that was all about keeping the Cold War just that: cold!

It's time to undo revisionist theories out there.

Offline MCG

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Re: Responses to The Afghanistan Debate
« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2006, 09:21:47 »
Here is what I sent at about 1845 on 7 Sep 06 to pm@pm.gc.ca
Let us know what you get back.

Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: Responses to The Afghanistan Debate
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2006, 09:56:22 »
Here is what I sent at about 1845 on 7 Sep 06 to pm@pm.gc.ca

----------

Dear Prime Minister;

I wish to add to the advice you are receiving re: the Afghanistan mission.

...

My views are expressed fully and completely by the most recent Army.ca editorial at: http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,49909.0.html

I will be grateful and you will be well served if one of your staff actually reads it.

Edward Campbell
Ottawa

Let us know what you get back.


Here is what I got back at 09:52 yesterday, 8 Sep 06:

Quote
Dear Mr. Campbell:

On behalf of the Right Honourable Stephen Harper, I would like to acknowledge receipt of your correspondence regarding Canada's role in Afghanistan.  Please be assured that your comments have been carefully noted.

It is in Canada's national interest to see Afghanistan become a free, democratic and peaceful country. An unstable Afghanistan represents a serious threat to Canada and the world. Canada has assumed an international leadership role by serving in the United Nations mandated, but Canadian led, Afghan security mission.

Canada has a tradition of stepping up to the plate and providing leadership on global issues. The Prime Minister is proud of the Canadian Forces personnel who have put themselves on the line to defend our national interests and to help Afghans rebuild their country. They are standing up for core Canadian values and achieving important victories for the people of Afghanistan.

As you may know, the House of Commons recently voted to extend the Canadian military mission in Afghanistan until February 2009. A copy of the Prime Minister's speech delivered prior to this vote is available online at http://www.pm.gc.ca/eng/media.asp?id=1165.

Once again, thank you for writing to the Prime Minister.


L.A. Lavell
Executive Correspondence Officer
for the Prime Minister's Office
Agent de correspondance
de la haute direction
pour le Cabinet du Premier minister


I’m not sure a real person ever laid eyes on my E-mail, much less read the editorial, but one can only try, try and try again.

A few years ago parliament or, maybe, the PMO was experimenting with a computer aided correspondence management system which included an automated reply function which would ‘read’ incoming E-mails and generate reasonable and timely responses – just like the one above.

If all mankind minus one were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.
John Stuart Mill, On Liberty (1859)
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Offline airmich

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Re: Responses to The Afghanistan Debate
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2006, 12:04:54 »
One can only hope now that you have sent them the link to this thread, that they will continue to monitor the views and opinions of members on the site, not only through this discussion, but others as well.

(yes, I know, wake up, I'm dreaming...but hey, stranger things have happened :D)
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Offline Lockness

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Re: Responses to The Afghanistan Debate
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2006, 21:44:35 »
I just finished watching CNN Presents: "In the Footsteps of Bin Laden" (see link for program details and schedule.)

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/presents/bin.laden/

Despite the bias an American news agency will have covering this topic, it does present a real chilling picture of what the West is up against just from the actual interviews from bin Laden, biographers, and journalists.

Following the program, flipping the channel to CTV newsnet to see coverage of the NDP convention in Quebec where they voted 90 percent to abandon the Afghanistan mission, I was ready to throw the remote through the TV.  Despite having the NDP's former defence critic and wife of a soldier involved in the mission supporting Canada to remain in Afghanistan, the delegates stood and cheered when the final vote results to pull out were in.  I just felt kinda sick inside.  What am I missing?  Are the NDP so enlightened that this decision makes sense?  It does not add up to my understanding of what is happening in the world around us.

Maybe its a good thing that this whole discussion of whether Canada should be involved in the Afghanistan mission is falling on the 5th Anniversary of 9/11 as maybe the coverage can rekindle the feelings and thoughts following that attack.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2006, 21:54:08 by Lockness »

Offline T.M.

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Re: Responses to The Afghanistan Debate
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2006, 23:24:50 »
I think that this article directly and clearly defines our role in Afghanistan. Good job!

From reading this article, as well as following the news for the past while, people should reevaluate their positions on the issue.

We can see that the insurgency is fierce and determined and there are many more in Afghanistan who hold radical ideals but do not participate in the insurgency. As the foreign occupation continues and more insurgents are neutralized, there are always more to take their place. It will be quite near impossible to neutralize half the country in this way, so I think we need to take a slightly different approach to the mission. We are indeed fighting to defend the interests of the Afghani people, but what if those interests are contrary to what we envision? North America is the richest, most powerful region in the world and I think we need to use our marketing skills and a pro-democracy campaign to convince the population of Afghanistan that they have the power to invoke change. If we can give them examples of how the democratic system has benefitted us in many ways (financially, socially and influentially), we can then use that to our advantage to neutralize the insurgency in a much more peaceful way, rather than have such a large occupying force in their homeland and divert from 'fighting' to 'diplomatizing'.

That's my opinion. We're so smart and bright that we should use more brains than brawn to get the job done. We spend millions of dollars on our own political campaigns. If we do something similar in Afghanistan, maybe we'll see change faster than by what we have been doing so far.

T.M.

Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: Responses to The Afghanistan Debate
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2006, 15:29:15 »
Quote
That's my opinion. We're so smart and bright that we should use more brains than brawn to get the job done. We spend millions of dollars on our own political campaigns. If we do something similar in Afghanistan, maybe we'll see change faster than by what we have been doing so far.

T.M.

Ahhh, crap!  Why didn't we think of this sooner?

Thanks, tips, but we have been helping the Afghan gov't (specifically) and it's people (more generally) for the past few years in exactly this.  It's just, well, these pesky Taliban types keeping shooting at us and blowing up things that we build, so we thought, just for a lark, that this fall, we would maybe get rid of a few of them, so that we can get back to being "oh so nice Canadians" again.  I hope that you can be patient with us?   ::)

Look, TM, sorry for the sarcasm, but your post comes off as a bit holier than thou on a board populated with people who are personally familiar with the problems in Afghanistan.  Give us some credit, hmmm?

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Offline Boxkicker

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Re: Responses to The Afghanistan Debate
« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2006, 20:42:36 »
 Lets face it there is no debate to be had, This mission has been started by Paul Martin and continued as it should. I have personally emailed Jack Lyton and said if he wishes to support the troops, that he show some reality. Otherwise I just offered him a nice cup of SHUT the F**K UP. To bad he will never see it.
Peace is our desire. Honor and sacrifice our calling.

Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: How CAN Got Into K'Har
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2006, 16:57:54 »
Furthet to this, just a few posts away:

As an interesting supplement to the piece spotted by Edward Campbell earlier this year
http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,43815.msg383154.html#msg383154

here's another account of how Canada got into K'Har, shared  in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the Copyright Act - http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html#rid-33409

The road to Kandahar
At an afternoon meeting in Ottawa, a decision was made that would cost soldiers' lives, billions of taxpayers' dollars and, perhaps, Canada's reputation
Bill Schiller, Toronto Star, 9 Sept 06
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1157753409549&call_pageid=968332188774

It was the afternoon of March 21, 2005 — 48 hours before Prime Minister Paul Martin's first visit to the ranch with presidents George W. Bush and Vicente Fox in Waco, Texas.

Members of Martin's inner circle were filing into Room 323-S in Parliament's Centre Block, among them, freshly minted Chief of the Defence Staff Gen. Rick Hillier, a charismatic and articulate man hand-picked by the Prime Minister himself.

Martin had called the meeting to discuss an array of foreign-policy issues.

But Hillier and planners in the defence department were fixed on one thing and one thing only: Afghanistan.

The meeting was the perfect opportunity to win confirmation for an idea they'd been planning for months, one that had the potential to transform Canada's military and embolden its reputation worldwide.

Defence Minister Bill Graham had already confirmed Canada would be sending soldiers in Afghanistan south to Kandahar, the dangerous stronghold and birthplace of the Taliban. There, Canadians would run a Provincial Reconstruction Team (PRT), a military formation combined with small components of diplomacy and development. The goal: to help reconstruct the country.

But Hillier wanted more than that — and he'd already won backing from the government's foreign affairs establishment.

Hillier wanted a battle group — at least 1,000 soldiers strong.

...

"Is that what we signed on to do?"

Axworthy points to recent polls showing Canadians turning against the mission.

"There's an innate sense among the public," he says, "that this is not right."

An interesting bit of speculation, really, from Norman Spector in today’s (11 Sep 06) Globe and Mail, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060911.BCSPECTOR11/TPStory?cid=al_gam_globeedge
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Tracing the roots of Canada's role in Afghanistan

NORMAN SPECTOR

It's no surprise that the resolution that provoked the most controversy in the lead-up to the NDP convention over the weekend was submitted by a British Columbia constituency association. Along with traditionally pacifist Quebec, pollsters say we're the least supportive of the Canadian mission in Afghanistan. Still, you have to wonder what was in the minds of the Nanaimo-Cowichan NDPers who prefaced their call for withdrawal with a warning that Canadian troops will be "acting like terrorists."

NDP Leader Jack Layton's office initially tried to play down the resolution and refused comment. However, the phone lines must have been burning up because, within hours, the riding association had dropped the controversial wording.

On the other hand, a resolution affirming that Canada was "participating in the occupation of Afghanistan" was duly debated and eventually adopted by youth delegates. No matter. Notwithstanding the rhetoric, it's healthy in a democracy to be discussing these issues.

With grim news nearly daily from Afghanistan, it's understandable that many Canadians are asking themselves why our soldiers are fighting and dying in that far-off country. In light of Canada's refusal to send troops to Iraq, they're finding it especially difficult to understand how it came to pass that our country suddenly appears to have enlisted in U.S. President George W. Bush's war on terrorism.

Today -- the fifth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks -- is a good day to look back at how all this came about.

It's not, as Defence Minister Gordon O'Connor has said, and as I suspect the Prime Minister will repeat in his televised address this evening, that 24 Canadians died in the attack on the World Trade Center. Those deaths were regrettable, but Osama bin Laden was not targeting Canada. Although our government has a responsibility to help Canadians in difficulty abroad, it has no obligation to go to war because some of us were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Let's be clear, however: Canada did go to war after 9/11.

Immediately after the attacks, Canadian representatives participated in the decision to invoke Article 5 of the NATO charter, declaring that the attack on the U.S. was an attack on all members of the alliance.

A month later, then prime minister Jean Chrétien announced that we would send troops to Afghanistan. And Canada's elite troops, J2F2, did in fact help the U.S.-led coalition depose the Taliban government that had harboured Mr. bin Laden.

In contrast to the Iraq war, these troops were operating under a United Nations mandate. Unfortunately, in light of subsequent events, neither we nor other NATO partners committed sufficient resources to complete the job. Rather than defeating them decisively, the Taliban and their al-Qaeda allies simply retreated tactically and waited for a better day.

In fairness, the NDP opposed Mr. Chrétien's decision to go to war in 2001, and the party is now being consistent with its principles, if not with Canada's international obligations. Wavering Liberals, on the other hand, are not being consistent with either. From the minute that Canada joined the coalition to depose the Afghanistan government, it became our obligation -- morally and under the laws of war -- to restore stability and try to set the country on a path to self-sustaining prosperity.

Toward that end, Mr. Chrétien deployed aid workers to Kabul. He also sent troops in an effort which, according to former minister Sheila Copps, was designed in part to stave off any request from the U.S. that we participate in the Iraq war.

Be that as it may, in 2005, then prime minister Paul Martin -- encouraged by the Canadian military -- decided to beef up our operation. Jack Layton was among those who cheered when the Chief of Defence Staff, Gen. Rick Hillier, said that the mission of our troops was to target the "detestable murderers and scumbags" behind the rise in international terrorism. In November of that year, the base in Kabul was shut down and our forces relocated to Kandahar in the dangerous southern region of Afghanistan.

Mr. Martin could have opted, as have the Germans and the French, for a less robust role, which would have been more appropriate to Canada's size and the size of our military. His aides are now saying that he never saw Afghanistan as "a natural fit for Canada," but viewed it as an "obligation" from the Chrétien era.

In supporting the extension of the mission, Liberal leadership candidate Michael Ignatieff stated that it had not changed under the Harper government. The fact that the dangers have increased beyond all anticipation does not in any measure diminish the obligations Canada assumed under successive Liberal governments.

nspector@globeandmail.com

I have a few quibbles:

•   Although 9/11 was not an attack on Canada, per se, Osama bin Laden did designate Canada as one of the target countries.  In effect he declared war on us.  That rather than Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty is why we are, indeed, at war;

•   Spector, like most Canadians I fear, has forgotten that there were two deployments:

1.   The honourable one in 2002 – decided because only the most base would deny help to our good friends and neighbours when they went to root out the den of snakes who had attacked them, and

2.   The sneak out of Iraq deployment to ISAF in Kabul when, later, morphed into the current mission in Kandahar.  Spector, quoting Sheila Copps, is quite correct when he says that going to Kabul was aimed ” to stave off any request from the U.S. that we participate in the Iraq war.”  It was an act of supreme cynicism; and

•   Mr. Martin could have opted for a ‘safe’ PRT in the North if, big, Big IF he had the capacity to make a decision.  They didn’t call him Mr. Dithers for nothing.  By the time he had made up his mind all the nice, safe provinces were gone – to more politically nimble Europeans.



If all mankind minus one were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.
John Stuart Mill, On Liberty (1859)
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Offline MCG

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Re: Responses to The Afghanistan Debate
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2006, 20:53:37 »
Here is what the Ruxted Group suggests Mr. Harper, as Head of Government should say:
. . . and here is what he said
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Text of Prime Minister Harper's 9/11, fifth-anniversary speech

Good evening. Today is the fifth anniversary of the terrible events of Sept. 11, 2001.

I am speaking to you from the Hall of Honour in the Centre Block of Parliament.

With me are some Canadians whose lives have been touched by 9-11 in ways that most of us can't even begin to imagine.

Men and women who lost loved ones in the attacks on the World Trade Centre. Tanja Tomasevic, who lost her husband, Vladimir; Danny Eisen who lost his cousin, Danny; and Maureen and Erica Basnicki, who lost their husband and father, Ken.

I asked them to join me because words alone are not enough to express what needs to be said today.

As we pay tribute to the 24 Canadians who lost their lives on that infamous day five years ago, their family members remind us that they were real people with real lives.

Lives that were cut short -- deliberately so -- by a murderous act of terrorism.

Like most Canadians, I have a vivid memory of that morning.

As my wife, Laureen, and I watched the second tower collapse on television, as the enormity of the events began to sink in, I turned to her and said: "This will change the course of history.''

And so it has.

In the years that followed, terror struck Bali in Indonesia, Madrid in Spain, London in Great Britain. And security forces in many countries -- including Canada -- have foiled alleged terrorist plots before they could be executed.

The targets and tactics were different in every case, but the objective is always the same. To kill, maim and terrify as many people as possible. Not in the name of any idealistic cause, but because of an ideology of hatred.

And while this war of terror has displayed some of the worst of which humanity is capable, so too has it revealed the greatness and generosity that lie at the core of so many ordinary people.

Something which was on display for all to see when Canadians opened their arms and homes to thousands of travellers whose flights were diverted on 9-11.

And because of this war of terror, people around the world have come together to offer a better vision of the future for all humanity.

For this vision to take hold, the menace of terror must be confronted.

And that is why the countries of the United Nations, with unprecedented unity and determination, launched their mission to Afghanistan to deal with the source of the 9-11 terror and to end, once and for all, the brutal regime that horribly mistreated its own people while coddling terrorists.

And that is why I invited the families of some of the Canadian soldiers who are currently serving in Afghanistan to join us here today.

I want to thank Raquel Hounsell, Janice Shaw and Jane Hill for being here. Their husbands are currently serving in Afghanistan. And Capt. Edward and Judy Kosierb, whose son is serving in Afghanistan.

Their presence here reminds us that real people -- Canadian men and women with families and children -- are courageously putting themselves forward to make that part of the world a better place.

It is the desire to make a better and safer world which compels our soldiers to put their lives on the line.

There are Canadian heroes being made every day in the desert and the mountains of southern Afghanistan.

These are the stories we don't hear -- the countless acts of courage and sacrifice that occur every day on the battlefield.

And in the towns and villages where Canadians are reconstructing the basic infrastructure of a shattered nation.

Because of their efforts, the Taliban is on the run, not the charge.

Women now have basic rights as human beings. Youngsters are getting a chance to go to school. And many -- but not yet all Afghan families -- are beginning to rebuild their lives with our help.

Because we are a country that has always accepted its responsibilities in the world, from two great wars in Europe, from Korea to the Balkans, Canada has acted when the United Nations has asked.

And as the events of Sept. 11 so clearly illustrate, the horrors of the world will not go away if we turn a blind eye to them, no matter how far off they may be.

And these horrors cannot be stopped unless some among us are willing to accept enormous sacrifice and risk to themselves.

I would ask that, tonight, you keep in your thoughts and prayers the victims and families of 9-11 and all those ordinary people who have died or lost loved ones in related acts of terror.

I would ask as well, that you keep in your thoughts and prayers the personnel and families of the extraordinary people in Afghanistan and elsewhere who have put themselves on the line so that the world is a better and safer place for all of us.

Good night.
Unfortunately, it seems more may still be required.
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Fighting terrorism requires sacrifice: Harper
Updated Mon. Sep. 11 2006 7:47 PM ET
CTV.ca News Staff

...

Analysis

In recent polls, Canadian support for the Afghanistan mission has been tepid. In a poll conducted between July 13-16 by The Strategic Counsel for CTV and The Globe and Mail, 39 per cent of respondents said they supported sending Canadian troops to Afghanistan versus 56 per cent who opposed the move.

CTV's chief political correspondent Craig Oliver told Newsnet the prime minister tried to emotionally link the events of 9/11 with current Canadian involvement in Afghanistan.

Oliver said the speech comes at a time when the Canadian mission in Afghanistan is in a bad patch.

"If you and I were in a street fight and we had to turn to onlookers and say, 'please give us help here', we wouldn't be said to be winning.

"And we've been forced to go to NATO and say, 'we are up against it here'," he said.

A year ago, the Taliban operated in hit-and-run raids. Now they are fighting in large groups, almost like conventional warfare, he said.

With the current talk of bringing in tanks, Oliver said military told him four years ago that tanks shouldn't be used because they separate our troops from Afghan population.

While Harper made an effective presentation, he didn't address many of the questions that should be asked about this mission, Oliver said.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060911/harper_speech_060611/20060911?hub=TopStories
Hopefully, the television networks are mandated to carry the next speech (and to carry it live).  Too much of relevance was edited out when I finally saw it.