Author Topic: New Operational Service Medal Announced (Read 51491 times)

Gunner · « **Reply #25 on:** October 21, 2006, 10:02:01 »

Quote from: Patrolman on October 21, 2006, 09:55:41

Thanks for the info. I was afraid this might happen,I guess all our hard work will go unrecognized.

Patrolman, there are lots of deployments not seeing medals but the actions of its members are recognized (including Op HALO). We have teams training (IMATT) the Sierra Leone Army (RSLAF) who do not receive medals, we have soldiers on their 2nd or 3 rd tour of Afghanistan under Op ARCHER or Op ATHENA and have the SWASM or GSC. They are all recognized as important contributors to the mission but they don't receive a numeral on their medal or another medal for the same mission. If you want recogniztion for everything that you do, you are going to have to join the US Army and obtain your "fruit salad" for passing courses and going to work.

Cheers,

Patrolman · « **Reply #26 on:** October 21, 2006, 10:39:12 »

Gunner

No thanks on the American army. You see my piont is this. Over 600 pers deployed on this mission not a handful. The CO has been recognized,430 Etah has been recognized, now what about the boots on the ground doing the dirty work? This was a full fledged mission. Have you deployed over seas on a Nato or U.N. mission and never recieved a medal for it ? I am not asking for numerals here or medals for other things I have done in the CF. Ihave picked up the pieces from Swiss Air(human and plane) and only got a certificate, deployed to the Ice Storm and got nothing, competed in the Cambrian Patrol an recieved the Land Forces Achievement Award. That is all fine but, I believe the contribution I made along with all of the others from Task Force Haiti deserves more recognition than what we have recieved.

George Wallace · « **Reply #27 on:** October 21, 2006, 10:52:58 »

Patrolman

I think your mention of the commander of the Task Force having received the CMM or the OMM for his work on the mission, is a non-issue. That is a 'generic' medal presented to persons of that rank basically for performance, not Tours. He could have just as easily been awarded that for being able to find his office, as for being on that Tour.

What you are proposing is a re-evaluation of our Awards System to satisfy any group of disgruntled members who feel they have been wronged if they do not meet the criteria as laid out in the Awards System for an Award. Where would you place the cut off for any other group who may feel they should have an Award? I know of some who were in Eritrea for the Setup and the Teardown, putting in more time than those deployed, but due to broken time, were not eligible. Do we go back and change the criteria for all Awards to make their dates shorter, and/or to include accumulated time? You are basically demanding a total revamping of the Awards System. That is what you seem to be saying.

[Edit to add:]

In another discussion on Medals and Awards, some are feeling discriminated against when people of rank or 'lesser' Trades show up in Theatre for a TAV and do the minimum amount of time to meet the criteria for a Medal and go home.

We can't have it both ways.

MCG · « **Reply #28 on:** October 21, 2006, 11:15:02 »

Quote from: Patrolman on October 21, 2006, 10:39:12

Have you deployed over seas on a Nato or U.N. mission and never recieved a medal for it ?

Do you mean like many Op ARCHER soldiers that did not receive a medal because they had done Op APOLLO?

Gunner · « **Reply #29 on:** October 21, 2006, 11:45:31 »

Quote from: MCG on October 21, 2006, 11:15:02

Do you mean like many Op ARCHER soldiers that did not receive a medal because they had done Op APOLLO?

Exactly MCG. There are many soldiers from LFCA who served in Kabul (some twice) and received the General Campaign Star. These soldiers are now serving for their second or third tour in Afghanistan, down in Kandahar, and they will be recognized as having completed two or three tours in Afghanistan but they still will only have the one medal. This was a concern raised over the development of the GCS, it is possible for a soldier to have 10 tours to various theatres of operation yet he only has a CD and GCS on his DEU tunic. There was some discussion about bringing back into service, overseas stripes (1 stripe per six months service overseas) but I don't know where this stands.

Infanteer · « **Reply #30 on:** October 21, 2006, 13:11:21 »

The GCS seems like a rather lazy award (to clarify; in its creation, not the effort to get one). If we were able to give our guys 4 or 5 different medals for service in the Balkans (UNPROFOR, Former Yugo, Kosovo, Macedonia, Non-Art 5, etc, etc) why couldn't we create a specific medal for Afghanistan, with numerals perhaps? Just as the Balkans was -the- theater of the 90's, Afghanistan is -the- theater of the first decade of the new millenia. I think we can come up with something better than an ugly, generic catch-all. Even the SWASM with Afghan Bar would be better than a GCS, no?

ArmyVern · « **Reply #31 on:** October 21, 2006, 13:21:21 »

Quote from: Infanteer on October 21, 2006, 13:11:21

I think we can come up with something better than an ugly, generic catch-all. Even the SWASM with Afghan Bar would be better than a GCS, no?

I'd agree with your sentiments on the generic catch-all Infanteer.

But a point on the SWASM with the Afghan bar is that there are those from Op Apollo who received this, who returned for future tours to a SWASM with Afghan Bar (therefore nothing as there is no post nominal with this medal or the GCS). Then again there are those 2 medal tours from 2003/04 where the soldiers were presented both the GCS and the SWASM with bar. Guess it all depends on what dates you actually serve in theatre.

I kind of like the suggestion of "overseas" stripes made somewhere in this thread.

Guy with the SWASM and Bar X 2 tours (1 year overseas) with same medal awarded for both gets 2 stripes;
Guy from 2003/2004 receiving both SWASM with bar & the GCS (for one 6 month tour) gets 1 stripe.

Infanteer · « **Reply #32 on:** October 21, 2006, 13:28:48 »

A numeral would satisfy this requirement without creating anything new, no?

As well, it seems as if the guys with ISAF's new mission should be getting the SWASM, just as the guys they replaced did. I saw a CANFORGEN that was issued a couple weeks ago stating that wasn't the case, but last week a CANFORGEN came up cancelling that one. Something's up I guess.

ArmyVern · « **Reply #33 on:** October 21, 2006, 13:33:47 »

Quote from: Infanteer on October 21, 2006, 13:28:48

A numeral would satisfy this requirement without creating anything new, no?

Yes it certainly would but then the Dress Committee would have to take some time (

) trying to come up with how to properly wear your SWASM ribbon bar with both a leaf and a numeral !!

Gunner · « **Reply #34 on:** October 21, 2006, 14:36:04 »

Quote from: Infanteer on October 21, 2006, 13:28:48

A numeral would satisfy this requirement without creating anything new, no?

As well, it seems as if the guys with ISAF's new mission should be getting the SWASM, just as the guys they replaced did. I saw a CANFORGEN that was issued a couple weeks ago stating that wasn't the case, but last week a CANFORGEN came up cancelling that one. Something's up I guess.

Numerals are used by the UN but not by NATO (except the original FRY medal). Moreover, our history and heritage did not permit numerals for campaign medals (Ever see a northwest Europe Campaign Star with a 2 or 3 on it?).

The SWASM was awarded and is still awarded (denoted with Afghanistan Bar) for personnel serving with the US led coalition. The GCS has been approved for issue for those serving with ISAF (denoted with an ISAF Bar).

I should mention the GCS was created based on feedback received from soldiers complaining to various commanders about not being recognized in a timely manner for their tour overseas. With the GCS, a new bar can be awarded whereever it is deemed appropriate. For instance, if we follow the advice of the NDP and invade Sudan, a new bar could be created for the GCS (Sudanese Security Force - SSF Bar).

Infanteer · « **Reply #35 on:** October 21, 2006, 15:15:18 »

What's going to happen when guys fill their GCS up with bars?

Gunner · « **Reply #36 on:** October 21, 2006, 18:49:52 »

Quote from: Infanteer on October 21, 2006, 15:15:18

What's going to happen when guys fill their GCS up with bars?

When you are CDS you can sort it out for us!

Infanteer · « **Reply #37 on:** October 21, 2006, 19:11:58 »

Quote from: Gunner on October 21, 2006, 18:49:52

When you are CDS you can sort it out for us!

By that time, medals will be replaced with holographic stickers or something....

Gunner · « **Reply #38 on:** October 21, 2006, 19:15:42 »

Keep the faith brother, keep the faith.

Iterator · « **Reply #39 on:** October 21, 2006, 19:29:04 »

Quote from: Gunner on October 21, 2006, 14:36:04

Numerals are used by the UN but not by NATO (except the original FRY medal). Moreover, our history and heritage did not permit numerals for campaign medals (Ever see a northwest Europe Campaign Star with a 2 or 3 on it?).
...

You'll have to check out the Africa Star (it had numerals - but not for counting tours/time).

Afghanistan went from General to Specific many years ago. There is no point having the SWASM for some and the GCS for others. Bars on the SWASM can be used to indicate the different missions or even tours (after all, the GCS has a way to indicate multiple bars, and so could the SWASM).

Just say no to stripes.

MCG · « **Reply #40 on:** October 21, 2006, 19:48:50 »

Maybe go with different colour bars. Silver for one tour and gold for more tours.

Technoviking · « **Reply #41 on:** October 21, 2006, 20:10:26 »

My opinion: just as in WWII, there were "campaign stars" for specific campaigns. No "General Service" campaign stars. All medals similar in design, varied in the specifics and the ribbon colours of course.

That is all.

delavan · « **Reply #42 on:** October 21, 2006, 20:18:53 »

Op Halo, that switched to UN after the first 3 months, kept the chap.VII clause until the end and ROE's stayed the same until departure from theatre of operations. To me the CPSM wasn't the one to go with.

IMHO

ArmyVern · « **Reply #43 on:** October 21, 2006, 20:23:40 »

Quote from: delavan on October 21, 2006, 20:18:53

Op Halo, that switched to UN after the first 3 months, kept the chap.VII clause until the end and ROE's stayed the same until departure from theatre of operations. To me the CPSM wasn't the one to go with.

IMHO

And the Roto Zero guys (including my 9er) are not entitled to be awarded the CPSM for precisely this reason...they were peacemaking not peacekeeping.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/dhh/downloads/honours/cpsm_eligible.pdf

CPSM eligiblity began on 01 June 2004...when the blue Berets came in and the roto 1 pers. Most of the loggies who were there the full six months already had the CPSM.

delavan · « **Reply #44 on:** October 21, 2006, 20:26:24 »

Quote

And the Roto Zero guys (including my 9er) are not entitled to be awarded the CPSM for precisely this reason...they were peacemaking not peacekeeping.

I got the CPSM myself for that mission, and and stayed there 5 1/2 months... (end of March until beginning of August 2004).

ArmyVern · « **Reply #45 on:** October 21, 2006, 20:30:40 »

Quote from: delavan on October 21, 2006, 20:26:24

I got the CPSM myself for that mission, and and stayed there 5 1/2 months... (end of March until beginning of August 2004).

That'd be because you were there after June 1st...if you were there 5 1/2 months correct? You wore the blue beret on your head for the last half of your tour correct?

As I said...the guys (RCR type like my husband) who went in advance party the first week of March 2004, evaced the airport, cleared the streets, the weapons caches, and tried to make the place somewhat safe, but then came home end-May and early June...don't qualify.

Gunner · « **Reply #46 on:** October 21, 2006, 23:12:53 »

Quote from: The Librarian on October 21, 2006, 20:30:40

That'd be because you were there after June 1st...if you were there 5 1/2 months correct? You wore the blue beret on your head for the last half of your tour correct?

As I said...the guys (RCR type like my husband) who went in advance party the first week of March 2004, evaced the airport, cleared the streets, the weapons caches, and tried to make the place somewhat safe, but then came home end-May and early June...don't qualify.

If you look at your link, on the last page, it states that they are entitled to the CPSM "MIF (Multinational Interim Force in Haiti) (7 March - 20 May 2004) (Op HALO)". Whether the mission is given a Chapter 6 or 7 mandate has little to do with whether the CPSM is given.

ArmyVern · « **Reply #47 on:** October 21, 2006, 23:17:05 »

Quote from: Gunner on October 21, 2006, 23:12:53

If you look at your link, on the last page, it states that they are entitled to the CPSM "MIF (Multinational Interim Force in Haiti) (7 March - 20 May 2004) (Op HALO)". Whether the mission is given a Chapter 6 or 7 mandate has little to do with whether the CPSM is given.

Well, there's a whole bunch of them still waiting...

Gunner · « **Reply #48 on:** October 21, 2006, 23:20:50 »

Quote from: The Librarian on October 21, 2006, 23:17:05

Well, there's a whole bunch of them still waiting...

In addition to the document you provided, IIRC there was also a CANFORGEN in Fall 2005 stating they were entitled to the CPSM. If they are still waiting to be awarded the CPSM....sounds like their chain of command has some issues ...

Technoviking · « **Reply #49 on:** October 22, 2006, 10:08:36 »

There must be some bad PR on the eligibility of the CPSM, for I have heard nothing, and I was in theatre from 17 March until 6 June of 04. In fact, I rode a LAV with "The Librarian's" 9er (as she put it, NOT me

). There were a lot of younger lads who were on their first tour, so this would be their first medal. As I already have been awarded the CPSM, I guess I already got mine

Oh well, too bad.

Maybe next tour?

And I'm still waiting for my "Oka" medal

(Don't worry, I'm not serious about that. I mean, yes, I was there, but I'm not waiting for a medal for Oka)

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Author Topic: New Operational Service Medal Announced (Read 51491 times)