Topic: "The stuff the army issues is useless" and "no non-issue kit over seas!"

[PhilB]

Im considering purchasing a chest rig for the TF 1-06 deployment. In talking to people from the 1st I know that their CO is fairly lax on non issue kit in the field. My question is will this policy change once overseas? Does any have any experience with the kit nazis over there. Is there a double standard i.e. if your on gate it doesnt count as the field so only issue kit etc.
Thanks very much just trying to decide if its worth the investment. Thanks in advance

[Krazy-P]

are you doin gate duty at camp mirage?

[BITTER PPLCI CPL]

Are you reg or reserve?

[Blackhorse7]

Not meaning to open up this can of worms, BPPC.... but what does it matter if PhilB is Regs or Reserves?  Would the standard not be the same?  I tell you this... if I went on tour as a Reservist and got held to a different standard than the Reg Force guys did (ie:  they could wear non-issue kit and I could not), I would be some pissed.

[Britney Spears]

Not meaning to open up this can of worms, BPPC.... but what does it matter if PhilB is Regs or Reserves?  Would the standard not be the same?  I tell you this... if I went on tour as a Reservist and got held to a different standard than the Reg Force guys did (ie:  they could wear non-issue kit and I could not), I would be some pissed.

He's asking because the D&S platoon is a formed unit of reservists, with a reservist CO and CSM (or whatever the combination may be) who might feel compelled to ensure that their troops were "inspection ready", so to speak.

[PhilB]

I am a reservist, and no as far as I know we will be attached to 1 VP based out of Khandahar. There is a second D&S pl that is being stood up to go to mirage

[Britney Spears]

Oh.

Yeah, what he said.

[Blackhorse7]

Gotcha.  Thanks for the clarification, Britney.

[Bomber]

Buy one, wear it, if you get jacked up, and told to get rid of it, advertise it for sale on Army .ca, or Ebay, put the disclaimer that it has been to Kandahar, and someone will buy it, probably for more than what you paid.  If you don;t get told to ditch it, then wear it and be happy.  Not really a situation you can lose in.

[BITTER PPLCI CPL]

Black horse, no, THE STANDARD WOULD  NOT BE THE SAME!

[SF2]

wear it .....what's the worst that could happen?  Someone telling you to take it off?

[Krazy-P]

i was asking because i am also a reservist with the LER, and if they ever sort my paperwork out,(long Story), then i will also be going to kandahar. Just curious what people are bringing for kit.

[Matt_Fisher]

Going on tour just to do 6 months of gate guard?     I'd go nuts.  I used to dread the 4 hours on - 4 hours QRF - 4 hours pers. time revolving schedule of guard rotation on the operations cycle when I was in Iraq.  Get me out of the wire anytime.

My advice would be follow Bomber's advice and take as much non-issue stuff as you want, but to have all the 'issue' stuff you were told to bring as well.  Probably better to use the issued stuff at first and gradually break in the non-issue stuff gradually.  Better to base first impressions with your leadership on you as a competent troop who can function at his job, rather than some over eager Canex-Commando all decked out in aftermarket gear.  Once your leadership knows you're a good-to-go troop, then you can start bending the rules abit by using a non-issue 3-point sling, then wearing a non-issued vest, etc. 

Play it by ear and be flexible.

[Roy Harding]

...

My advice would be follow Bomber's advice and take as much non-issue stuff as you want, but to have all the 'issue' stuff you were told to bring as well.   Probably better to use the issued stuff at first and gradually break in the non-issue stuff gradually.   Better to base first impressions with your leadership on you as a competent troop who can function at his job, rather than some over eager Canex-Commando all decked out in aftermarket gear.   Once your leadership knows you're a good-to-go troop, then you can start bending the rules abit by using a non-issue 3-point sling, then wearing a non-issued vest, etc.  

...

The best (and sneakiest - I knew I liked you) advice so far.

[Rider Pride]

Im considering purchasing a chest rig for the TF 1-06 deployment. In talking to people from the 1st I know that their CO is fairly lax on non issue kit in the field. My question is will this policy change once overseas? Does any have any experience with the kit nazis over there. Is there a double standard i.e. if your on gate it doesnt count as the field so only issue kit etc.
Thanks very much just trying to decide if its worth the investment. Thanks in advance

Its your money, waste it as you see fit. Just because your overseas doesn't mean the kit and clothing rules are eliminated. All it takes is a visit from one RSM or General for your "investment" (now it term of kit, and cars, money spent on it is never an "investment") to become wasted space in your UAB.

[Unknown Factor]

Better to base first impressions with your leadership on you as a competent troop who can function at his job, rather than some over eager Canex-Commando all decked out in aftermarket gear.  

If you get anything out of this thread then pay close attention to what Matt states in this line.  Remember though after 16 years in the Army I've never seen a requirement for any soldier less those that operate dismounted, to wear or use half of the stuff that I see soldiers wearing overseas on gate guard.  The equipment that is supplied to you is sufficent for the task which you are being asked to fill, the wish to have anything else is mearly for LCF and not for any tactical purpose.

I'll tell you what does piss people off though and it's soldiers that show up on tour with everything but what was issued and do not fill a dismounted task.  So before you know it then the CSM's and RSM's come down hard and those that do have to leave camp and operate dismounted now have to come up with creative ways around the 'rules'.  Number one thing I look for in a soldier is his abilities, now if he isn't checked out I'll have to ask myself then why is he wearing all of that stuff? conclusion - 'he's an idiot!'

[Britney Spears]

On a "hot" tour, it is quite possible that having functional load bearing equipment will mean the difference between life and death(you know, being able to access your ammunition might come in handy). I think you can be sure that having aftermarket equipment will definetly not DETRACT from your effectiv ness. So, you decide, would you rather be alive and written up for using non-issued equipment, or dead?  I've personally wondered about this question myself, although I haven't actually had to test my resolve in this issue yet....

If the chain is making you carry extra socks and melmac plate in your vest, then chances are you're not really in that much danger anyway.

[Unknown Factor]

On a "hot" tour, it is quite possible that having functional load bearing equipment will mean the difference between life and death(you know, being able to access your ammunition might come in handy).

Soldiers don't die because they are unable to get the ammo out fast enough, they die because they get shot or blown up, something that could happen with or without a mag on their weapon, something out of their control unless they saw it coming and if that were the case why did he miss the first 30 times? - the whole arguement towards LBV's is their load capabilities for dismounted troops, no where would that suggest that it works better in regards to ammo access. An undisputed fact is that they look good, but walk anywhere with it fully loaded other than the front gate and you'll be cursing the weight. Dismounted solders carry the weight because they have to, that doesn't mean they like it, or it's an excuse to look cool, given the option I'd 'pack light and freeze at night' anyday.

[Britney Spears]

the whole arguement towards LBV's is their load capabilities for dismounted troops, no where would that suggest that it works better in regards to ammo access.

Sounds like you missed that particular argument. It was really long. 

[Andyboy]

Soldiers don't die because they are unable to get the ammo out fast enough, they die because they get shot or blown up, something that could happen with or without a mag on their weapon, something out of their control unless they saw it coming and if that were the case why did he miss the first 30 times? - the whole arguement towards LBV's is their load capabilities for dismounted troops, no where would that suggest that it works better in regards to ammo access. An undisputed fact is that they look good, but walk anywhere with it fully loaded other than the front gate and you'll be cursing the weight. Dismounted solders carry the weight because they have to, that doesn't mean they like it, or it's an excuse to look cool, given the option I'd 'pack light and freeze at night' anyday.

You had me up until this post. Could you elaborate a bit?

[Blackhorse7]

And why is that, Mr. Bitter?  If that soldier is over there doing the same job you are for however long the tour would be, why should his kit be different than yours?  I hope you are not implying that just because The Reservist is a part-time soldier that he should have inferior gear.

Because that would just be ignorant.

But I'm sure that's not what you meant.

[Britney Spears]

Oh come now, didn't I just explain it? If you had a battalion with 2 coys of regs with reg OC and CSM, and 1 coy os reserve with reserve OC and CSM, would you be suprised if the reserve OC and CSM might have different ideas about non-issued gear than the regs? Obviously knowing where Phil stands in this respect would be helpful in answering his question.

Yes, 1 standard would be nice, but unless the CO and RSM came down with a specific order ruling one way or the other, it might just be left to the discretion of the coy commanders.

[Old Ranger]

Phil,
You've got allot of great advice so far.
If you want it, and think you'll be able to use it, then get it.
But heed all that advice about proving yourself and feeling out the Regs there before you wear it.
Did some Reserve in-charge go out of his way to piss everyone off?
Are Reserves targets for backlash?
I'm not meaning to insult or demean anyone here,
just throwing in some extras (from experience) to concider.
What ever you do, I hope your tour goes well.

[Blackhorse7]

Britney, read my last post.  I said doing the same job.  And I would like to think that there would be a Regimental standard, not different standards for each Company.

[Roy Harding]

Britney, read my last post.  I said doing the same job.  And I would like to think that there would be a Regimental standard, not different standards for each Company.

It all depends on the CO/RSM team.  Some impose such a Bn standard, others leave it up to Coy Comds/CSMs.  I've been in units which dictated (and inspected to ensure compliance) which ruck pocket your socks went into.  And I've been in units that don't issue a kit list - but there's hell to pay if you catch pneumonia because you didn't have your poncho.

Either way worked for me, although it IS nice to know prior to packing a bunch of kit that you won't be allowed to use.