Topic: Qualifications

[PilotGal]

Hello all. I just signed up for this forum, and thought I‘d ask this question, cos I haven‘t called anyone, but from what I see on the website for the Air Force, you have to be a Canadian citizen/landed immigrant in order to be qualified for the Canadian Forces, whether as a regular or reserve. I‘m in my 3rd year at university in Toronto right now, as an international student, and I‘m really interested in joining the Air Force, and I‘m wondering if there are any exceptions made. I‘m not interested in joining because I want to speed up or influence the immigration process or citizenship. I‘m interested in joining because it‘s what I want to do. So is there any way they‘d make any exceptions to the rule? I know that in the States it‘s not all that hard to get into the army if you‘re not a citizen or landed immigrant.

Is there any process by which I can get into the Air Force (or alternately Army) without/before getting my papers worked out? Would they even consider my application? :-(

Thanks.

Danielle :-)

[mht]

I don‘t think they‘d be making any exceptions. From my experience you need all the paper work completed or at the very minimum in the process of being completed before you can proceed to actually joining an element.

I‘m assuming from the Union Jack that you‘re from the UK. If so, perhaps just call the recruitng centre and mention you‘re a British citizen. I had looked into a commission with the British Army a couple years ago, I know that they have no problem with Commonwealth applicants (although, I also have dual citizenship). I don‘t know if this will have the desired effect, but you might as well try. Or else, just apply for Canadian citizenship, you won‘t have to give up your British (my mum didn‘t).

I‘m in the process of joining the Army Reserves, so you should understand that I‘m not a serving member of the Canadian Forces.

[PilotGal]

Hmmmm. I thought so... But I was hoping that if I get "exceptional" references from school, community, etc., I *might* have a chance. I‘m from Lebanon. I‘ve already talked to the AVP of the university I attend, and she encouraged me to apply (so I might be able to get references from her, and maybe even the President or Chancellor of the university, as they both know me [personality, character, academics, background] too).

So my question basically boils down to: Do they look further to other details/qualifications you have after marking the first condition (citizenship) as unsatisfied? :-(

Thanks,

Danielle

[mht]

Wow, those are pretty impressive references to be sure. The President of my school wouldn‘t have known me from Adam.

If I were you, I‘d go ahead, you don‘t have anything to lose, and maybe your name sticks around in the recruiting office/files, and later on if you apply again, someone say‘s "Hey, she seems really enthusiastic, bring her in"

From what I understand the citizenship and immigration status are kind of like security measures. So if you don‘t meet them, they may just toss your application.

Maybe get those references, then call up the recruiting centre and schedule an appointment to speak with a recruiter, and until they ask you about citizenship, keep mum. Don‘t lie of course, but I don‘t think you‘re required to announce you‘re not a citizen/landed immigrant.

[PilotGal]

Hey mht,

Thanks for the info, opinions. :-) I‘ll give it a shot after I get my degree.

D.

[MethylSilane]

You‘ll have to provide your Birth Certificate and/or proof of citizenship.

If you are a landed immigrant, you may join the reserves, but you‘ll have to prove you are actively seeking Canadian citizenship.

Also, to be an officer, I believe you must be a Canadian citizen.

[PilotGal]

OK, now I‘m confused... So you have to provide a birth certificate with your application, or after being recruited? Hmmm, I don‘t know if that question made sense. I don‘t know what the application is like, I‘ve just seen the qualif. requirements on their website. Because if they take you in before asking for birth certificate, etc., and you somehow go through it all without being asked about it, then you can claim landed immigrant status by getting points for the cateogory of "employment" and hence become a landed immigrant, and there‘d be no problems with that anyway.

I don‘t know. If I had seen an actual application, it would‘ve cleared things up a bit, but I‘m guessing you can‘t get an application sent to you unless you say you‘re a citizen or landed immigrant, and I wouldn‘t lie about that. But is there like no way of "volunteering" to join the Air Force? I‘m asking this just in case anyone has heard of any such case. I‘ve heard that USA doesn‘t go very harsh on those cases, and that‘s why I was hoping that maybe I could work things out somehow here in Canada. Because if there‘s no way around it, I‘d have to wait for at least 4 years from now to be able to get in to the Reserves (IF I get landed immigrant status), and a minimum of 7 years to get into the Air Force. :-(

*sigh* I would‘ve thought that someone who joins a country‘s Armed Forces is not joining just to get citizenship. It‘s not easy to survive and succeed in the forces, right? Unless someone is really interested in serving the country, they wouldn‘t join... Maybe I‘m ranting, but I really *hope* there‘s a way for people like me to join the Canadian Forces. :-(

D.

[Etown]

You will need to wait until you are at least a landed immigrant, and then you can join the reserves.

I think you should consider the security implications of allowing a citizen of another country to join the armed forces. Ignoring the time it would take to do a proper security check, in some cases it would be down right impossible. At least as a landed immigrant they can check on your behaviour for the last few of years.

So to clear things up, they wont even take your application without first seeing your birth certificate, so they‘ll know you aren‘t Canadian. Exceptions? Well you‘d have better luck trying to get your citizenship papers rushed than trying to get into the Canadian Air Force without them.

[PilotGal]

All you people said makes sense... However, about this point:

"At least as a landed immigrant they can check on your behaviour for the last few of years."

I‘ve been in Canada for 2 years now, and by the time I get my university degree, I will have 4 years of stay in Canada (although as a temporary resident, not landed immigrant), which means that they *can* do a behaviour check, as well as a health check if they want. I could also get police clearance from my country in at most 10 days. It‘s not like police records don‘t exist in Lebanon or anything. And of course, nothing can guarantee that a Canadian wouldn‘t be a security threat, just like nothing can guarantee that a non-Canadian wouldn‘t be a security threat. All they can do is interview you and look at your background. In addition, I have relatives who are Canadian citizens (aunt and cousin are citizens, grandmother is a permanent resident), and my sister is also in the process of getting her papers done for landed immigration, and it‘s obvious that I want to stay here (rather than get trained and leave the country later. Lebanon doesn‘t even allow women into the army), which takes me to the point someone else made above, that in order to be recruited as a Reserve, you must prove that you are actively seeking Canadian citizenship. Well, wouldn‘t it be *possible* (not saying *definitely* gonna happen or would happen) that if I am actively seeking landed immigrant status (i.e. in the process of applying), and apply to the Canadian Forces?

Having said all that, however, I think you‘re right about me applying to get my immigration papers done, it might better my chances, but I don‘t want to leave out any possibilities of getting in if there are any. I‘m just excited, and don‘t want to wait for more than 5 years if I can help it, that‘s all. I think most people who apply are excited about getting in too. :-)

And oh, by the way, no, I‘m not a British citizen. I just had it as my avatar because my best friend was British, that‘s all. I‘m an Armenian, with a Lebanese citizenship. Heh.

D.

[Galadriel]

I just finished up the recruiting process, I‘ll be starting Basic training Next month.  I can‘t wait to start  

I‘m also not originally from Canada though I‘ve been a citizen for some time now.  Photocopies of both your birth certificate and Citizenship are required to even apply, as well as a copy of your social insurance card which I think you have to be a citizen to receive as well ( though I‘m not entirely sure how that works)

You‘ll also have to fill out a security clearance form (times 3  :p ).  On both the application and security clearance there are sections detailing contacts and what not in scheduled countries, I‘m not sure but I think Lebanon is a scheduled country so be sure to have that info when you fill out your application.

Hope everything works out for you.  From what you say, you still have two years left until you‘re finished school so maybe during the interim, you can get the rest of the huge amount of paperwork done  

~Nicole

[Zoomie]

In order to join the CF as an Officer you MUST be a Canadian Citizen, there are no exceptions.  You may join the Primary Reserve as an NCM as long as you have Permanent Resident status (Landed Immigrants no longer exist).  You could apply for this status any day now, you have been in Canada more than long enough.  
The rules in the US are just as stringent.  If I wanted to fly down there I would have to wait the years out for my citizenship before being enrolled as an Officer.  To join as an NCO in the US forces you need at a minimum your Green Card.  Not too many Canadians get Green Cards, and they are given out in a lotto format.

Stick to your guns, join the PRes while at looniversity.  Work towards your citizenship, then you can join the RegF.  We have a Kosovar MCpl in my unit that just recently got his Canadian Citizenship, he‘s been in Canada for only 5 years.

[PilotGal]

Hello there.    Thanks for the replies and all that.  

I‘m pretty sure I‘ll get the perm. resident thingy done as soon as I get my degree, cos I would have 4 years of stay in Canada.    I think that takes about a year and a half to be processed, during which time, I could try and find a way to stay in Canada (thinking about starting my master‘s degree), because if I stay in Canada for a year and a half before I get my perm. resident status, after that, when I apply for citizenship, I would only need a year and a half to be able to apply, and not 3 years. And during that time I could also apply for the reserves.  :p

And yes, I DO have a social insurance number. I got it when I first came here.    I can also get basically anything, including a driver‘s license.  :p

So it‘s not all that bad. I‘m already exercising quite a lot (it‘s always great to be fit LOL), so it‘s all good.    

Good luck to you too!  

D.

[GrahamD]

This is just in response to the statement that the US isnt very strict on the rules when it comes to joining their military.  I believe that to be false.  I myself (Canadian Citizen) called and talked to recruiters about joining the infantry, as I know of someone who joined the Marines on some kind of exchange program.  They were exremely adamant that I meet the requirments they had laid out, and that they would not extend any kind of reference to immigration, for anyone to aid in the process.  Once a "citizen, member, or whatever it was" of the US it was no problem to get in to the Forces.
  But have something to offer the US in the way of money, or education, or desirable skill and you are a shoe in for the green card.  Just ask all our doctors who dont live here anymore.